Talk:Bloody Dracul Vampir

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In the FanKan 2000 Transylvania no Mori video on Sera Myu Antics they have this character translated as Vampiru. Any thoughts? --Queen Mio 15:31, 22 July 2008 (MST)

"Vampir" is a word. "Vampiru" isn't. Kerochan no Miko 19:33, 22 July 2008 (MST)
That "Vampiru" could be partially come from the romaji rendition of the word. --210 21:06, 22 July 2008 (MST)
And hence most likely it's directly from "ヴァンピール", that latter part of her name in Japanese. --210 21:13, 22 July 2008 (MST)
Plus she uses vampiru in the song all of you shall die. So what do you think? --Queen Mio 17:59, 4 August 2008 (MST)
Yes, she says "vampiru" because that's how "Vampir" is written in Japanese. But we write "Vampir" for the same reason we write "Sailor Moon" and not "seeraa muun." Kerochan no Miko 19:43, 4 August 2008 (MST)
Oh, ok then. --Queen Mio 18:08, 5 August 2008 (MST)
The real question would be: why do we call her vampir, when the programme: [1] clearly calls her Vampire. As for it sounding like vampir, its just the french prononciation of the word written the same way it is in english, which wouldn't be suprising with the quantity of french words there is in the musicals. - Sailor Simon 13:17, 6 march 2011
Dunno... for consistency with the cardian Vampir, perhaps? (Which was maybe, I guess, how ADV spelt the cardian's name; that explains the used spelling.) But yeah, it's the french word for "vampire" in both cases, it seems. --YnK 11:37, 6 March 2011 (MST)
From what I've seen "vampire" is written バンパイア in Japanese and since she's ヴァンピール maybe it's to make a distinction between them? Kerochan no Miko 13:03, 6 March 2011 (MST)
The trick is -- the French word "vampire" is written in Latin letters the same way as the English word, but is pronounced differently; バンパイア approximates the English word pronunciation, while ヴァンピール approximates the French word pronunciation. Not sure how to differentiate them from each other when writing in Latin letters, though. But a language note in the article could be useful... --YnK 13:29, 6 March 2011 (MST)
"Vampir" is the spelling in German, which is also pronounced more like ヴァンピール. Basically, spelling it the way we do in this article is a good way to differentiate them, as I said previously. Kerochan no Miko 14:40, 6 March 2011 (MST)
Addendum: looks like that's how it's written in Romanian, as well. Makes even more sense to me now to spell it this way, what with the "dracul" being Romanian as well. Kerochan no Miko 14:43, 6 March 2011 (MST)
I think you are missing the point here. The picture I provided comes from the official programme of the show. When it comes down to the Musicals I think those are pretty much the only "official" materials available. If it didn't come from this official programme of the show, I wouldn't even be discussing this. My whole point is since it it written as Vampire in this programme, I proposed that this page be moved to Bloody Dracul Vampire. And yes, just like YnK said, a language note should be added saying that it is pronounced as "vampir". The programme was my main point. The french thing was a speculation on my part as to why they pronounce it like vampir, then again they also pronounce it like vampiru. Let's just not get in to that again, please. When it comes down to how it is written is what was really bugging me. I just think we should go with official spelling when we can. It doesn't happen very often especially with the Myu.Sailor Simon 16:45, march 2011
They're not the only "official" materials, no. But I still don't think it should be moved for the reasons stated above, because even if something is written in roman letters in Japanese materials that doesn't mean it's actually an intended spelling. If we went with that logic we'd have articles for "Qeen Selenity" and "Deth Fantom" and the like. Kerochan no Miko 16:50, 6 March 2011 (MST)
What other "official" materials can we relly on when writting characters' name from the Myu if not the programme? Why would it be written like that in this programme if it wasn't the intended spelling. The examples you gave like Qeen Selenity and Deth Fantom come from derived marchandises and are invalid primarily because words like Qeen an Deth are not real word in any language. Selenity is up for debate in my opinion and so is fantom, but let's just not get into that here, please. Vampire is a real french word which is pronounced like vampir. It is therefore possible that this is indeed the correct spelling of her name. This programme was made by the the people working on the musicals. Why couldn't it be written vampire and be pronounced vampir just like it is in french?
Besides that, when you said «バンパイア» is how vampire is written in japanese, you were right: this is how the english word vampire is written. The french word vampire is written «ヴァンピール», which fits with the way her name is written. Speaking of which, this also applies to the cardian: [2], but this is a whole other debate which I have no interest in taking part in. Like I told you, Vampir is possible in my opinion, but so is Vampire, the french word. I gave my reasons as to why this page should be moved:
1) Vampir is a total speculation whereas Vampire is written in an official programme of the show.
2) The spelling works with the japanese characters if they were speaking the french word vampire, which wouldn't be out of place in the Musicals.
So I ask why Vampir over Vampire? They both make sense, however one of them was written in an official source, whereas the other is a complete conjecture. I'm not saying Vampire is not a bit conjectural itself but it is supported by an official source unlike Vampir. This really is my main reason for debatting this. -- Sailor Simon 19:35, 6 march 2011
The musicals give the spelling, ‧ヴァンピール and distinguish it verbally from ヴァンパイア, go look at "All of You Shall Die" for example. And also official sources in musicals aren't always right, it just takes one slip up, for example in the dvd recordings the song "To a Bland New World" comes up o.O its probably just a translation error... The Japanese makes the distinction between the two words, so we should do the same in english, we could use Vampire and Vampiiru for example, however Vampir is an actual word o.o so it makes more sense to use Vampire and Vampir. I hope that helps clear anything (or if it makes things more confusing sorry) Cartwheelingfiesta 22:34, 6 March 2011 (MST)
First of all, who left that comment? Second, like I said Vampire is an actual french word which is pronounced like vampir and written ヴァンピール. So what's your point?-- Sailor Simon 23:30, 6 march 2011
Oh sorry, I'm just saying because there are two different spellings in Japanese for ヴァンピール and ヴァンパイア which are both pronounced differently. We should do the same in English h and differentiate between the two with Vampir and Vampire or else when it comes to translating "All of You Shall Die" we're going to have another issue. Does that make more sense? And like i said, an "official" translation, especially from the musicals isn't exactly the best source. (To a Bland New World? / Deth Fantom) To be consistent I think she should stay Vampir, which is also much closer to the pronunciation than Vampire.Cartwheelingfiesta 22:34, 6 March 2011 (MST)
I agree with you completely that officially it is Vampire. However english has no other way to differentiate these spellings. The current spelling does however. They are loanwords into Japanese the same way, we should, in english, borrow another spelling to keep the pronunciation and idea of it not being english, which is far truer to the Japanese than using "vampire" for everythingCartwheelingfiesta 22:40, 6 March 2011 (MST)
I have no idea where this discussion is going. But I still see no reason why "Vampir" is an invalid spelling; "Deth Fantom" wasn't from "derived marchandises," whatever those are, it was in the manga itself, so. It doesn't matter if "vampire" is how you spell it in French or English, since we don't know what language was actually intended; considering that I can counter that it's "vampir" in German and Romanian and probably other languages as wel it kind of cancels that out entirely as an argument.
What it comes down to is that, in the absence of compelling evidence that this spelling is wrong there's no reason to change it. Kerochan no Miko 22:43, 6 March 2011 (MST)
For goodness' sake, debates on how to spell something in Sailor Moon can and will go on forever. Let's stop it and for now just write a comprehensive note about the name origins and how ヴァンピール can be written in different languages. If there's any need to move the page at all, it can wait anyway. --YnK 22:50, 6 March 2011 (MST)
Kay.-- Sailor Simon 00:53, 6 March 2011
lol <3 :3 hear hear Cartwheelingfiesta 23:06, 6 March 2011 (MST)