WikiMoon:Main Page/Talk Archives 1

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This archive was created on the 1st of September, 2006. It contains discussions from the Main Page talk page dating from the launch of the site (13th of May, 2006) which were inactive as of the 1st of August, 2006.

Formatting, rules and such

Hey all. Thought I'd get the ball rolling here with a few ideas on layout.

Conflicting continuities: One massive problem with Wikipedia's articles is the fact that information from different continuities (anime, manga, live action etc.) isn't always separated properly. This is a big issue, and something that we have to sort out early on. The way I see it, there are two possible solutions. Firstly, any one character (let's say, for example, Sailor Jupiter) would have a single article with a basic introduction, followed by numerous subsections relating to various continuities. The alternative is to somehow have separate articles for each version of that character... so you'd have Sailor Jupiter (anime), Sailor Jupiter (manga) and so on. This would do a better job of keeping things separate, but linking to articles would be that bit more complicated, since you'd always have to specify which version of a character you were linking to. Personally, I favour the first idea, provided we can get people to follow the style guide properly. Not sure how this would work with the musicals though, since they're effectively all micro-continuities separate from each other.

I think the first version would be the best idea. Too much linkage in the second one. Any other opinions? It's good to get this all straightened out now rather than have to reformat things later.--WikiSysop 23:55, 13 May 2006 (MST)
Yeah, I'm leaning towards that myself... we don't want to over-complicayed things and scare people away. Now, the easiest way to separate the continuities within an article is to have separate headings within the article for each of them. My only worry is that this could look messy, especially in articles for more minor characters. Perhaps we could have different coloured backgrounds relating to each continuity (I'm assuming that's possible with wikis, although my knowledge is really limited to text editing). If they were inoffensive pastille shades it might look okay. So... I dunno, anime could be blue, manga pink, live action green and so on.I'd rather see this than coloured text, which would probably look a bit more jarring.
So, how many continuities do we have? Here's a list of possibles: Anime, Manga, Live action, Musicals, NA Dub (and possibly other dubs too, if they're notably different), Games, Miscellaneous and Production/Fandom. As I mentioned earlier, some of these are more or less internally consistent, while others, like the musicals, games, and probably a lot of stuff in the 'misc' section, consist of lots of mini-continuities which would have to be separated anyway. Dooky 07:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Multiple identities: So, do we have a single article for Makoto/Sailor Jupiter, or do we have one for Makoto, one for Sailor Jupiter and one for Super Sailor Jupiter? Lunar Archivist's old encyclopaedia went down the first route, while mine went down the second. The only problem with the second system is that you have to decide on what information goes in each article, otherwise you end up repeating yourself. On my site, it works like this: "Kino Makoto" deals with her backstory, personality and so on, "Sailor Jupiter" deals with her Senshi powers and how she became a Senshi, and "Super Sailor Jupiter", when I get round to it, will be a rather short article dealing with how she became Super Sailor Jupiter, etc. Here's the thing, though... This is a great system for me as I'm the only one who has to follow it, but would we be able to institute a similar thing here, where there will (hopefully) be menay editors?

You got me on this. I think whatever is easiest would work best.--WikiSysop 23:55, 13 May 2006 (MST)
My vote goes for separate articles for each 'form'. For one thing, can you imagine how huge the Usagi Tsukino page would be if all the information on all the forms of Sailor Moon in every continuity were on there? Dooky 07:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Name order: Western or Japanese? On my site I use Japanese, just because it's an alphabetical list and Japanese names work better that way. That won't be an issue here, so perhaps we hould stick to Western order?

Western order makes the most sense to me. I've read a lot of academic texts on Japan, written some of my own, and while Japanese order is important for those, I don't think it's as important outside academia.
Agreed. Dooky 07:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)
On the subject of names, though, Sushil and I were discussing what ought to be done. We think there should be a list of common name spellings used for simplicity of the site, with links- where appropriate- to another page that shows the debate over particular romanizations, etc. Showing all sides of the various issues in this fandom are going to be important.--WikiSysop 23:55, 13 May 2006 (MST)
Yeah, this one we're going to have to nip in the bud, and compromise is the way to go. I'm afraid my site doesn't have a totally consistent policy on names... I usually go with the most common spellings unless I know there's something hideously wrong with them. We will probably need to decide on the 'consensus' spellings for the sake of consistency... again, I think it's best to use the most common spellings (a quick Google usually shows this) but for more contentious names we can have links to sites like Ian's, especially if he has different ideas about the spelling/origins. Dooky 07:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Canon: First off: the various materials collections for the anime and manga offer various bits of extra information. Should this be considered canon? For instance, the Lip Rods (those Outer Senshi transformation pens) are never named on-screen, but the name is used in the Nakayoshi Guides, so I consider it canon. There are plentyf instances like this, and we'll need to figure out a policy on such things. Secondly, will we have a way of differentiating stuff that happens within the Sailor Moon universe(s) from production notes, etc, that are from outside the universe? My site used the same format as the Star Trek Encyclopaedas, which were written (for the most part) as if the information they contained was factual. Any production notes or comments were then added in italics, to make it clear that they were to be viewed in a different context. Should we do something similar here? Dooky 13:19, 13 May 2006 (MST)

Yes, lets do something along those lines. I think it would be helpful if we set up a formatting rules page so people are aware of all this from the beginning.--WikiSysop 23:55, 13 May 2006 (MST)
If we go with the colour system I suggested above, then 'production notes' and such could simply have a white background. This would certainly be preferable to italics, since there will be some pages that are entirely dedicated to behind-the-scenes stuff, and a page all in italics would look pretty horrible. Dooky 07:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Common Courtesy

Please, please, please don't use this service as a way to bash groups or sites you don't like. At all costs avoid trying to let your personal opinions or feelings influence your writing. This project is about being as fair as possible to all the various communities and continuities. We will remove any instances of bias we find.--WikiSysop 12:10, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Infoboxes and such

I'm afraid my knowledge of wikis is limited to basic text formatting at the moment, so I'll have to just describe these ideas. Other wikis have these infoboxes/templates for various subjects, which would be useful here too. For instance, a Character infobox could contain the following: Affiliation (perhaps the affiliation could also determine the colour of the box's title bar), species (possibly; the species of many of the villains isn't clear, so we might have to settle for 'humanoid' in many cases), aliases, occupation, episode/chapter/act of first appearance. We'll want to keep this information fairly general though, as it will have to cover numerous continuities. The box could contain a picture, but it might be better to have a separate picture for each section if we're dealing with multiple continuities.

Regarding affiliations, there are various ways of organising them, but here's how it works on my site. I have the Moon Kingdom (main Sailor Senshi, Tuxedo Kamen, the cats, Elios and Queen Serenity), Dark Kingdom, Makaiju, Black Moon, Death Busters, Dead Moon, Shadow Galactica and Kinmoku Senshi. I have another category for Movie Villains (the three movies plus Bonnone) although his could be broken down further. Then I have civilains, non-human characters, fictional/mythical characters (within the context of the series) and "real" people (ie actual celebrities/historical figures who were mentioned in the series). A few characters don't fit very happily into these categories: namely Chibi Chibi (arguably closest to Galaxia in the anime, but her story in the manga is very different... probably a weak candidate for the Moon Kingdom), Perle (I'll probably have him as a Movie Villain by association) and the Lake Monster from Episode 40 (not really affiliated with the Dark Kingdom or indeed anyone). Uh, as you can see, some of this stuff is pretty minor, but I'm just posting things as they occur to me.

Incidentally, I note that image uploads are currently disabled. I think someone has to edit the .php to fix that. Dooky 10:32, 14 May 2006 (MST)

I think we should have a specific Sailor Soilder (and Tuxedo Mask) infobox that is diffrent to the general infobox where we can put all their "stats" info, perhaps having it divided into anime and manga for places where their are diffrences between the anime and manga stats or would that be too much? GracieLizzie 16:01, 14 May 2006 (MST)
Interesting thought, I know the stats you're referring to, and they should definitely be up here somewhere. Likewise, most of the monsters from the first three seasons has a brief set of stats... as did, weirdly, Naru and Haruna. I translated these for my site, although my Japanese is kind of crappy, so it'd be good to have a fluent Japanese speaker check them over. Dooky 16:13, 14 May 2006 (MST)
I usually refer to Ian's translations of the anime and manga stats [1] and the Sailor Senshi Page for the NA character profiles [2] if that helps :) GracieLizzie 16:17, 14 May 2006 (MST)
Yeah, they're pretty comprehensive ^_^ As regards the monster stats, I think I'm the only person ever to have translated them, so my versions are probably full of mistakes... Dooky 16:24, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Episode articles

As it happens, I wrote summaries for the first thirty-odd episodes for a site I never got around to making. I'm uploading these right now, and the first one's right here: Crybaby Usagi's Magnificent Transformation. The mini-synopsis at the top come from my encyclopaedia, but I don't really mind re-using these. Regarding episode names, I'm using ADV's names from the box set for now. I know that earlier we spoke about having information from different continuities on the same page, but in the case of episode articles it might be worth having separate articles for the dub. After all, the titles, airdates and cast lists will all be different. Just a thought.

What I'd really like is a little sidebar infobox where I can put stuff like episode number, airdate, writer, director and so on. Until then I'll just keep adding text summaries. Oh, and thanks to Starcat for starting off a few more stubs. Dooky 14:41, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Should we have seperate articles for the dub versions of the episodes? Personally I'd rather just keep them both on one page and perhaps have an "Alternate" or "Dub title" option on the info box where 'A Moon Star is Born' etc. can be placed, maybe some notes on major diffrences between the episodes could be noted in the article (like the backstory stuff from episode 44 appearing in A Moon Star is Born for example). GracieLizzie 16:09, 14 May 2006 (MST)
Either system is fine by me, although the episode articles I'm writing at the moment are referred to by the translated Japanese titles. Dooky 16:13, 14 May 2006 (MST)

Fanfiction

What is our policy on this? I know we want to include information on fandom, and theat's fair enough, but now I'm seeing spurious articles popping up with names I've not even heard of. I can accept inclusion of articles such as, say, Sailor Earth, since it's such a common device in fanfiction, but, uh, Youma'shak? Where does that come from? I'm assuming it comes from a single fanfic or fanfic series.

The thing is, I don't think we should allow people to upload the tiny details of a million fanfiction universes. Because before long, we'll have thousands upon thousands of articles written by people about their own fanfics, while the canon articles lie neglected. I know it's early days and we're still finding our feet here, but right now we have articles on "Youma'shak", "Arcadia", "Sailor Nemesis" and "Sailor Earth", while we don't even have an article for Usagi or Sailor Moon. I'm afraid I'm going to have to mutate into a Wikipedia orc and start demanding "Is it notable?" of everything if we don't sort out a policy on this very soon. Dooky 01:17, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Heh, my friend 70. is warming up by creating, um, less time consuming articles. She's gone on to make less silly articles since then, and is really getting the hang of it. (And um, we were having fun. Sorry. I'll go back to being a fuddy duddy again.) Kyaa the Catlord 01:23, 15 May 2006 (MST)
That's okay. I just feared it was the start of a big fanon-flavoured flood... :P Dooky 01:34, 15 May 2006 (MST)
I certainly hope not, although... I could make articles about all my 'fics... OMG STOP ME! (Just kidding.) Kyaa the Catlord 01:38, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Sorry about that, I initially couldn't imagine something like this actually being serious... I've never seen one other than real-wiki before. I'm working on real articles now though. ^_^

Cite.php

We need this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cite/Cite.php The new mediawiki cite code is sweeeeeet. Kyaa the Catlord 01:20, 15 May 2006 (MST)

I added it, try it out and tell me if I installed it right.--WikiSysop 01:49, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Apparently it needs the cite web template and I'm not sure how to add those, Dooky, do you know? Kyaa the Catlord 01:59, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Afraid not. I don't knowmuch about wikis beyond basic editing. Dooky 02:01, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Songs

Should we put up lyrics on song pages? It makes sense to me but we'd be stepping on some peoples' toes. Things like dub lyrics or romanizations are one thing, and of course translations are another.--WikiSysop 07:37, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Hmm... I'd only go for translations if we have the permission of the translators. Of course, that raises the whole question of how someone would prove they had permission. It'd be best, really, if we could get one of the translation sites on board. If not, I guess we can always link to them. Dooky 07:43, 15 May 2006 (MST)
If we just linked to animelyrics.com, that might be good enough.

Spoilers

Okay guys, how do we want to handle spoilers? I think for episode guides we should just assume that it's all spoilers. On general series pages, something along the lines of whatever Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon will be, we can have a Spoilers section, but do we want them on character pages?--WikiSysop 09:47, 15 May 2006 (MST)

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about spoilers at all. The series is years old, and people coming to a wiki/encyclopaedia ona series are going to be expecting spoilers. If it was a current series then fair enough, but I don't really see the need. It would be pretty tricky to write an article on, say, Sailor Saturn without spoilers, because the circustances surrounding her awakening are the climax to a whole season. Again, I defer to Memory Alpha, whose policy is: If it's been aired, it goes in. We can place a spoiler warning on the main page just to be on the safe side. Dooky 11:05, 15 May 2006 (MST)

New templates

Now that we've got a few templates made, it's pretty easy to adapt them into new ones. Jay asked for a song template: what kind of information would you want in this? Meanwhile, I'm planning a musicsls template, an albums template and a game template, as well as some kind of character template. We'll need one for manga too, but I might leave that to someone a bit more familiar with it (manga volumes could be covered by the current Books template, but chapters would need something like the Episode template. Dooky 11:34, 15 May 2006 (MST)

I assume a song template would have something like Title, Album, Year of Release, Company, and Continuity. The question is whether we want to list something like Seiyuu involved or Composer in the info box or on the page itself. I think we probably want a CD template over a song template, though. Don't need several hundred songs clogging things up.--WikiSysop 12:12, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Well looking at the stats there seems to be some things that always remain the same in both the anime and manga versions like Birthday, Starsign, Blood Type, etc but sometimes there are differences (for example Usagi's manga stats give "eating cake" as her hobby, whereas her anime stats give "eating, sleeping" as her hobby and adds cake to her list of favourite foods. Should we have a diffrent info box for the anime, manga, and NA Stats? Or one infobox with subsections? Should we combine the manga and anime stats together? GracieLizzie 12:17, 15 May 2006 (MST)

The problem with these templates is that they're fairly rigid, and they probably wouldn't be able to adapt to the stats you're referring to. For instance, the anime stats for the Inner Senshi incled "motto", but that option isn't included in the Outers' stats at all. Unfortunately I can't just crop bits off templates as the article requires it. I suggest a more basic character template that could be used for all characters, while the Senshi stats could be reproduced by way of unique tables (we could still probably link these to each other somehow. In fact, given the number of stats for certain characters, it might even be an idea to have a separate page for them (linked from the main character page). On a similar note, I'm considering making a separate episode infobox for Stars episodes... since none of them were dubbed, and it seems wasteful to be cluttering the articles up with columns of 'N/A'. This isn't so bad for the undubbed classic/R episodes, because they were kind of anomalous, but it would be grating to see it on every Stars episode page. Dooky 12:46, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Heh, some would call the dub columns for Stars 'prescient.' I am not one of those people. But I think a minimalist stats box with additional info in a seperate box for continuities data works fine. --WikiSysop 12:52, 15 May 2006 (MST)

I was wondering how to go about creating a new template. I can't find anything here on the site to do it myself. I was going to add pages on the DVDs, but there's no DVD template at the moment, and for whatever reason, it doesn't appear that I can make my own anywhere. I was just going to take the current CD one and modify the fields a bit. --MarioKnight 12:47, 21 May 2006 (MST)

Regarding PGSM episode templates, how about somewhere in the template box we link back to the index page for the series. For example, "PGSM Episode" would link back to Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon.--WikiSysop 17:59, 15 July 2006 (MST)

Well, if you're using Template:Episode Navigation as well, then that links back to the season, but I guess we could fiddle around with the main template if there's call for it. Dooky 18:08, 15 July 2006 (MST)
Ah I didn't know we were using those for PGSM.--WikiSysop 18:10, 15 July 2006 (MST)
I wasn't using those for PGSM (it didn't seem like we needed a "season" link since there's only one) but I can start. Kerochan no Miko 21:10, 15 July 2006 (MST)
I've also been thinking about this idea. And yes, editing each episode page would be tedious (unless we've a global edit facility here). 210 18:22, 15 July 2006 (MST)

Album covers

I'm designing the album template and something occurred to me... how easy will it be to get scans of album covers? Some of them are pretty obscure. All the pictures I've uploaded so far have been capped/scanned by me, but I only have one album. Do other people have more? In the case of us not having immediate access to scans, I'm going to make a placeholder image so that we can still fill in templates without having to worry about finding scans. Dooky 13:02, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Grab what you need off Amazon.co.jp: http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=music-jp&field-keywords=%E3%82%BB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3/ref=xs_ap_l_xgl15/503-1937065-3010314 Whatever you don't find, we'll try to get a source when it comes time. I've got a good 40 or so of the CDs back in the US and can get those scanned, plus if necessary I can ask for permission from Beej at the Compleat CD list, if he's still checking his e-mail.--WikiSysop 13:18, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Manga Chapters - Old or New?

When we refer to the original chapter names and numbers or the reprint names and numbers? Because some of the older chapters were split up in the reprint and given new names here is a nice chart showing how the two match up. GracieLizzie 05:45, 18 May 2006 (MST)

Ooh... good quetion. I didn't know about this. I'll defer to someone else since I don't know much about the manga, but my gut instinct is to go with the old chapters, since very few people viewing the site are going to have access to the reissues (untranslated as they are). Dooky 06:09, 18 May 2006 (MST)
Yes, good question. For the sake of continuity let's go with the old one, and if we do refer to the new ones, make a note at some point that it refers to the revised edition.--WikiSysop 06:11, 18 May 2006 (MST)
What we also need to get is a standardised list of chapter titles, because I'm kind of winging it with my chapter links at the moment... Dooky 06:16, 18 May 2006 (MST)
Well I've been using the titles on the above chart myself. Just separating words like Sailormoon into Sailor Moon. I agree on using the older chapters too. GracieLizzie 06:32, 18 May 2006 (MST)

On Danburite/Adonis/Kaitou Ace/Saijyo Ace

He has 4 identities, what name should I use for his article and should I split it into one for Kaitou Ace/Saijyo Ace and one for Danburite/Adonis? GracieLizzie 08:48, 25 May 2006 (MST)

Helpful for infoboxes

metawiki:ParserFunctions --Kuroyanagi 18:57, 25 May 2006 (MST)

Site Pushes/Milestones

I think once WikiMoon reaches 1,000 articles I'll make another push for it on Genvid with some sort of banners for people to use. We should keep track of these milestones to get more plugs for the site.--WikiSysop 23:10, 13 July 2006 (MST)

Yes, I've been thinking about this. Perhaps we could have an award for whatever user creates the 1000th article (and 2000th, and so on) to stick on the userpage, a bit like wikipedia has the Barnstars. We can also make a template for the article's Talk page (assuming it isn't just a redirect) denoting it as number 1000, etc. Dooky 03:00, 14 July 2006 (MST)
Award suggestion: user who has created the largest # of articles (w/ substantial contents & not redirects, talk pages, etc., of course) 210.245.162.185 05:50, 14 July 2006 (MST)
Is there any easy way of determining this? dooky 05:28, 22 July 2006 (MST)
If the Wiki S/W doesn't support this, it isn't easy. 210 18:26, 22 July 2006 (MST)

Birthday Calendar on the main page

What about that? It could be a small box in one of the corners and will mark the birthday dates of SM characters, seiyuus, composers, directors and anyone from the anime and live action staff. A separate line will reads:

Today's birthday: Emi Shonohara (A Sailor Moon voice actress) for example

I thought of this pattern at first.--StarFighter 18:37, 24 July 2006 (MST)

It's a nice idea, but since I don't know of any way to do it automatically, someone would have to change the list manually. As it's the front page, it would have to be done by an admin, and I'm not sure we really have enough to alter the template every day. It is a nice idea for the future, though. dooky 19:03, 24 July 2006 (MST)

Maybe admins can take turns to update it, and they probably won't do it everyday, since not every single day will be someone's birthday =). It's good to have that in mind. --StarFighter 19:10, 24 July 2006 (MST)

Clash again lol
I think users could be encouraged to propose to admins short msg for the front page (e.g. "Ayaka is 20 now!" - I like her, but not a fan as such lol). 210 19:16, 24 July 2006 (MST)

It seems to be possible to have this done automatically. The main page on Wikipedia has a "on this day" box, and looking at the history, it doesn't seem to be updated everyday to reflect the date change. Now the question is how they do that. I'll have to download the software and take a ,ook in it and see what I can find. If I can figure something out, I'll add in my date database that I use for SMU over here.--MarioKnight 20:02, 24 July 2006 (MST)

Bugger me, you're right! I thought they updated the thing manually. I'm off to do some experiments with this... dooky 20:21, 24 July 2006 (MST)
As an update... this works, but will take a while to set up properly. I have the basic framework in place, but there's a lot to be done (such as creating a WikiMoon namespace article for every day of the year O.O) dooky 20:53, 24 July 2006 (MST)
Thx for your effort Dooky. Just take it easy. Besides some basic dates like Usagi's birthday, maybe you could just let other users give you the inputs. 210 21:07, 24 July 2006 (MST)
Well, therein lies a potential problem. This is going to be on the front page eventually, and it's current policy that the front page is only editable by mods. Thus, all of these articles will have to be protected. I guess we could work it so that only the current week's articles are protected... In any case, if the article is protected and you want to add an event to it, just stick it on the Talk page. dooky 22:28, 24 July 2006 (MST)
At the moment, WikiMoon:Anniversaries has events for maybe a quarter of the days of the year: basically the birthdays of the Senshi, main voice actors and a handful of production staff. The next stage is to add airdates for episodes (we can also include the releases of movies and manga chapters, premieres of musicals, etc. Depending on how things are looking after that, we can go ahead and add more minor actors too. When we have something for every day (or as close as possible) we can put it on the front page.dooky 06:43, 26 July 2006 (MST)
Awesome. That's part of the reason I finished up those stubs last night so there could be links for all of the episodes on their date. Once all the episodes are added in (original and dub), that should be enough to start putting it on the front page. My table for this on SMU has the same birthdays (though here we have more VAs than mine already) and air dates, and there's few days where there's nothing. I'm going to add release dates for DVDs and such too at a later point (when I finish those pages). --MarioKnight 09:40, 26 July 2006 (MST)