WikiMoon talk:A guide to common character names

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Aw, balls. :P And I've been writing 'Tuxedo Kamen' all this time. Oh well, best to get this sorted out early. Should we add more? Of the main characters, the only really contentious ones I can think of Metalia/Metallia/Metaria, Dimande/Demand, Saphir/Safir, Alumin(i)um Seiren/Siren (actually, the 'i' is never there, it's just force of habit what with me being a Brit) and the myriad spellings of Nehelenia. I guess that old chestnut, Amazoness/Amazones falls here too... Dooky 10:25, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Yeah, we've got to add more, I just didn't want to be the one to get the ball rolling on stuff like Metallia, Vadiane, and others. It's kind of like, pick your poison. But we are promising to do a section on character naming debates, so anyone who's disputed will have that linked to on their page.--WikiSysop 10:28, 15 May 2006 (MST)

How should we refer to the anime series or manga series without instead pointing to the character? Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon and Sera Myu will work for those, of course.

Ah yeah, I meant to bring this up. Sailor Moon should go to the character. For th eanime, Sailor Moon (anime) and for the manga Sailor Moon (manga)... although we could go with Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon if anyone's fussed. for the first season of the anime, also just called Sailor Moon, we can have Sailor Moon (first season)... in fact, the episode articles have that link embedded in them already. For subsequent seasons, I think we can just use Sailor Moon R, Sailor Moon S etc. Dooky 10:53, 15 May 2006 (MST)

Oh well, about debates. I thought that Metalia/Metaria discussion was settled down once and for all after publishing of new cover edition manga. May be I missed something, but can someone explain why Metalia spelling was preferred while Naoko herself clearly wrote Metaria? Anton-P 12:12, 30 May 2006 (MST)

Up until about a week ago, this page was empty save for the senshi names. All of the villain names were added by me just to get something on here. There hasn't been any great debate on what names should be used, I just stuck down the names I personally use. The reason I did this is because if people start using their own spellings without any standard to work to, the wiki system can't really function properly.
If you want to know why I favour Metalia over Metaria, then there's two reasons. Firstly, 'Metalia' is, far and away, a more well-known spelling, and there's something to be said for populism in this case. We don't want to scare people off with exotic spellings of otherwise familiar terms. Secondly - and this is more of a personal reason - the fact that Takeuchi happened to write it as 'Metaria' doesn't swing it for me. The argument in favour of Metaria assumes she wrote it thinking "This is the official English spelling" and not just "I'm writing in English because it looks cool". The reissued manga was aimed at a specifically Japanese audience, and any English included was most likely used for decorative, not informative, purposes. She also wrote Death Phantom as "Deth Fantom" at one point. You can make an argument for Fantom, but Deth seems to be an example of someone taking an English word, turning it into katakana, then ten years later trying to put it back into English without the aid of a dictionary. I'm not convinced Metaria is any different.
I've strenuously avoided etymology debates in the past because of how brutal they can be, and I'm aware that the above opinion could get me clobbered in some circles. As Jay says, there will be a section on disputed spellings, so the Metalia article, along with Death Phantom, Amazoness Quartet and so on will all be linked to a page outlining the debates over their romanisations. If there was a massive groundswell of support for one particular spelling over another then I guess we could change it, although as the wiki grows these things get more difficult.
And there I was thinking that 'Dimande' would be the spelling that annoyed people the most :P Dooky 16:22, 30 May 2006 (MST)

I'd like to suggest adding the names of the Movie characters. For example...how should I spell names like "Peruru" :) Kasumi

Will do. I'll stick the civilains up there too. Dooky 16:57, 30 May 2006 (MST)

I would say that assumption derived from incorrect spelling of "Deth Phantom" that everything else written by Naoko is also incorrect is rather hasty generalization. Once there is a spelling of "Metaria" in an official source and no spellings of "Metalia" seen anywhere in official sources any claim for "Metalia" is nothing but pure speculation. Anton-P 00:02, 31 May 2006 (MST)

I do appreciate your argument, and I recognise the case for Metaria, but ultimately a decision had to be made and I went with the most commonly accepted spelling. That's the reason why Metalia appears here; the second part of my post was simply illustrating that the argument isn't one-sided. I'm afraid there are going to be numerous spellings here that some people will disagree with. We want to reflect the debate and at some point soon we'll get the 'Disputed names' page up and running. Dooky 00:44, 31 May 2006 (MST)
The reason I use Metalia on here is because it seems to be a halfway house between Metallia, and Metaria. GracieLizzie
I personally believe it's Metallia because if the names went by pronunciation, a lot of other names would change, too, like Sera Myu, Takisshido Kamen, Sera Maakury, Sera Maasu, etc... The spelling for a lot of the Black Moon villians are hard to spell, especially one like Berthier. I've seen all sorts of different ways to spell the names of the villians from the Black Moon. WaterKnight 14:42, 9 December 2007 (MST)

Question! Isn't it Sailor Chibi Chibi and not Sailor Chibi Chibi Moon? Also, I must have missed the Tuxedo Mask thing... I have been using Kamen. I will go through and try to change them. --Sakky 18:15, 2 June 2006 (EST)

Ah... interesting point. In the anime, she's definitely Sailor Chibi Chibi Moon, but in the manga I believe she's just Sailor Chibi Chibi. Ironic, I suppose, because in the manga she's associated with the Moon and in the anime she isn't. But I suppose if all you say is "Chibi", you can't be too choosy about what people call you.
Now, the question is... what do we do about this? We can fix it so that one redirects to the other, but which do we have as the 'official' name? As an anime nut I'm instantly biased in favour of Sailor Chibi Chibi Moon, but there's an equally strong argument in favour of Sailor Chibi Chibi. Does anyone know what they call her in the musicals? That's a third continuity, so maybe we should go with whatever they use there. What do you think? Dooky 15:53, 2 June 2006 (MST)
In the musicals, she is in fact called Sailor Chibi Chibi Moon. Personally, I think if the majority of the versions refer to her as this, and they do, that should be the name that is used. --Dianne 16:22, 2 June 2006 (MST)
Well I know we're mainly going by the older versions of the manga on here when it comes to manga however, it seems in the reprints her name was changed to Sailor Chibi Chibi Moon (see here) so I'd rather go with Chibi Chibi Moon too. GracieLizzie 03:47, 8 June 2006 (MST)

I just posted the Act 46 Stars 4 summary with 'Princess Kakyuu'. Is that the spelling we should use? It's not on the list yet.--Sakura 22:35, 7 June 2006 (EST)

Black Moon Clan[edit]

I'm personally more inclined to go with "Diamant" and "Rubis", since Saphir and Emeraude's names are derived from the French. I really don't agree with Ian's idea that they're from Old German and Latin, respectively. Kerochan no Miko 12:04, 24 September 2006 (MST)

Well, the very reason the page exists is to avoid this sort of etymological conflict. The admins created ths page at the start of the project in order to lay down the spellings to be used. Yes, we know some are controversial. You can't please everyone. Sometimes there is no consensus and you just have to go with the most commonly used variant. dooky 12:06, 24 September 2006 (MST)
Oh, I understand that completely. I'm just saying that I really don't accept Ian's opinions as The One And Only Truth. Kerochan no Miko 12:17, 24 September 2006 (MST)
Ah, quite right, I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing (most of the comment was directed elsewhere). Ian's done a lot of interesting work, the majority of which has very firm foundations, but a lot of people seem to just look at his site and say "oh, Ian says such and such, it must be true" without investigating the matter for themselves. For one thing, I don't think this slavish dedication is really fair on Ian, because it results in his name getting sucked into arguments that he never even started. What really irks me is people's reluctance to question anything on the site: Ian himself is always up for an etymological debate, so it's a shame that people are just lifting things from his site without taking the time to debate them themselves. dooky 12:30, 24 September 2006 (MST)
I, also, don't agree with everything Ian Miller presents on his site. However, Demand is printed on official merchandise and does make more lexical sense than does Diamant or whatever that weird variant was that I changed. His well-sourced argument is convincing and I couldn't make the case any better myself, though if you'd like to debate for the sake of debating, I'll happily create an argument which references him. If you disagree, I'd suggest presenting sources to refute Miller's version.
If you're going for "popular version" that would be "Prince Demando" it gets 1240 overall hits on 398 sites on google searches. "Prince Demand" is next with 700/185. That is way more than "Prince Dimande" at ~90/20 and ~90/56 for "Diamant" (Search terms are wrapped in quotes, with the qualifiers sailor moon and excluding the term "wikimoon".)
Moreover, changing every instance of the word "Demand" to "Diamande" made for some rather messed up song titles for the myu. The other versions are up for debate, but in the musical the character's name is 100% Demand. --Kuroyanagi 12:45, 24 September 2006 (MST)
The point here is that "Prince Diamande" has been chosen as the spelling that is used on Wikimoon, no matter the arguments for and against it, and you can't just summarily change that to suit yourself. (As for being printed on official merchandise, are you going to change "Queen Serenity" to "Qeen Selenity" and "Death Phantom" to "Deth Fantom"?) Kerochan no Miko 12:48, 24 September 2006 (MST)
Demand is consistently printed on many pieces of merchandise. It's not a typo-related or the usual "R/L" confusion. Secondly, I didn't see this page before I changed the name. --Kuroyanagi 12:58, 24 September 2006 (MST)
Well, now you know this page is here, and what the rules are concerning moving pages. You're entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine; you don't have to agree with the name spellings, but we need consistency across the site. Kerochan no Miko 13:06, 24 September 2006 (MST)
The problem is that you're using a method that trumps correctness with consistency. Wikimoon should re-evaluate the policy--especially if it involves using very esoteric spellings of certain character names. --Kuroyanagi 17:35, 24 September 2006 (MST)
Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. In the meantime, please follow the existing policy. Kerochan no Miko 17:49, 24 September 2006 (MST)
It should. I'd also like to submit a list of Myu names we don't have any gnashing of teeth because someone prefers to use "Ru Fei", "Death Managers", or some other equally silly spelling. --Kuroyanagi 18:44, 24 September 2006 (MST)

While I don't have a problem with any name we decide to use, I would like to know if there is any reason we are currently using Dimande. Dooky, you said that you chose the names; why did you decide to use Dimande? Elanorea 05:19, 25 September 2006 (MST)

I'm curious about that too, if it is because ADV use Dimande then why are we using Ail an An rather than Ali and En? Actually I much prefer Ali and En to Ail and An myself. GracieLizzie
And.. only one reply to my reasons for changing (it wasn't for or against changing to Demand, but against the way I did it.) Does that mean I can go ahead with changing this name, then? --Kuroyanagi 16:34, 29 September 2006 (MST)
I don't see a reason why it needs to be changed. I think you need agreement to change it, not just a perceived lack of disagreement. Kerochan no Miko 17:45, 29 September 2006 (MST)
The number of google hits. Or was that only good for Seiyu Unit? --Kuroyanagi 17:55, 29 September 2006 (MST)
I was still waiting for Dooky to contribute his reasons for spelling it that way in the first place, as popularity isn't the only reason for choosing a particular spelling; it's just the one that seems to be used when we have nothing else to go on. Kerochan no Miko 18:25, 29 September 2006 (MST)
Still waiting on Dooky, but if we're going on sheer popularity, my personal favorite, "Prince Diamant" beats "Prince Demand" in a Googlefight (4,890 results to 2,430 results). Kerochan no Miko 21:44, 29 September 2006 (MST)
Well in a Googlefight with kana... the kana given for Rubeus' name (ルベウス) brings up several pages with Rubeus in western text on them [1][2] and "ルベウス rubeus" brings up 148 results, whereas "ルビス rubis" brings up none. I'd do this for デマンド and Demand/Diamond/Dimant too but I think the fact that Demand is a commonly used English word might skew the results towards that.... then again "デマンド Diamond" brings up 40,300 results in comparison to none for "デマンド Dimant". I believe the kana for Rubis is ルビス[3] not ルベウス, I am not sure what the kana for Dimant is.--GracieLizzie 02:45, 30 September 2006 (MST)
Not really. Prince Diamant is apparently used for other things i.e. "...Histoire Splendide du Prince Diamant..." (it's a French translation of a Indian story from the early 19th century and others come up in that search.) Because "Demand" and other names are very common words we have to limit the way in which we do google searches. So, I searches for "Prince XXXXXXX" and sailor moon. We should also look at how many unique sites use the name by going to the end of the list of search terms. i.e. If one site with 4,000 pages indexed on google uses the term on all of its pages, then the results will skew the main number reported. The results: ""Prince Demando" 400/1240 is the most popular and longest used. It's the direct translation of the katakana name. "Prince Demand" 190/715 is next. It's mostly the myu name. "Prince Diamant" 56/91 however, a good chunk of those are french: "Le prince diamant et ses guerriers voyagèrent...", etc. Finally, we have "Prince Dimande" 18/95. Now these are very restricted searches. If we take the two names that have unique spellings, not used in other languages "Demando" (360/696) and "Dimande" (50/240) the results are more obvious. The dub name also gets a lot of hits "Prince Diamond" 328/9,080 also gets a lot of hits. It had a lot of duplicates and I assume this is because of retail sites which often copy the same description over and over. --Kuroyanagi 06:57, 30 September 2006 (MST)
Well, my reasons for opting for Dimande may seem a little convoluted, since it was a name of uncertain origin that I had no especially strong opinions about. In the absence of a consensus, I would usually have gone with the most popular name via a Google search, but I did note that in all cases apart from Dimande, we were already using ADV's romanisations of the Black Moon names (and some of those names, particularly of the Phantom Sisters, are still subject to multiple romanisations across the web). So I thought 'what the hell?' and went with ADV's rendering for the sake of consistency. I'll grant you that it's by no means an ideal situation, but I can guarantee that any spelling of Dimande/Demand/Diamant would have people barking objections. dooky 07:28, 30 September 2006 (MST)
So then why did you go with Ail and An instead of Ali and En then? GracieLizzie 08:18, 30 September 2006 (MST)
Well, I said that I agreed with their romanisations of the Black Moon names. Ail and An are seperate, and to be honest, the "Ali" and "En" spellings struck me as somewhat absurd: completely altering the prononuciation of the names for the sake of preserving a rather fragile pun that didn't even work that well in Japanese. While I appreciate the intent of these spellings, I think it's a bit misleading to be using a spelling that in no way reflects the pronunciation. I could be wrong here, but I suspect that switching to Ali and En would piss off a hell of a lot more people than the spellings we have at present (and although it's rather difficult to tell with such short names, it does seem that Ail and An are the more popular renderings). dooky 14:21, 30 September 2006 (MST)
I have to agree with Dooky on this - no matter what spelling we chose, there would be people unhappy. Since this is the one we're using, my vote is to keep using it because it's easier. :P Kerochan no Miko 08:57, 30 September 2006 (MST)

Okay, as much as I hate to crack open this can of worms again, there have been a lot of developments since the last time we visited プリンス・デマンド. ADV was using "Dimande" and that was basically the only official source, which is why we originally went with it. However, now we have the Kodansha manga, Viz, and Crystal, which use "Demande". Unless anyone objects I'm going to make that the wiki's official spelling - but I want to note that this is an unusual circumstance so please don't start any wars over other names. ;A; Kerochan no Miko (talk) 18:12, 9 February 2015 (MST)

Musicals[edit]

We definitely need some spellings for musical characters, like Mikku/Mick, Kukku/Cook, Ruka Naito/Luka Nite, and so forth. Anyone? Kerochan no Miko 20:38, 30 September 2006 (MST)

There's been some discussion about it in the Kaguya Shima Densetsu [talk page]; Jay thought Ian had strong reasoning for his suggestions (at least on that particular musical) so I'm going by them for now. --Rosen 07:07, 4 October 2006 (MST)

I added names, but I'm not entirely sure about the categorization thereof - if people have suggestions, please let me know. Kerochan no Miko 13:01, 19 January 2007 (MST)

Is there some kind of issue about Sammael vs Samael for the oft-mentioned name in the Dracul arc? Wikipedia says [4]... is there some argument for the double m? I don't know much about Talmudic angel names.--Dallbun 13:33, 5 April 2007 (MST)

Hmm. I was going with the double m because that's what people had used in previous myu articles, and that's all I've seen (although I admit I've been influenced by the Wheel of Time). All the sources I've found, though, only have the single m, so I'm going to change it to that. Kerochan no Miko 13:50, 5 April 2007 (MST)

Official Spellings of the Outer's Names[edit]

In Volume 11, It's spelled Meioh, Tenoh, and Kaioh, furthermore it's spelled like that in the anime... with the paintings that Michiru does. There is more support for this canon-wise than the "ou" spelling. --Hitsuji Kinno 11:58, 4 July 2007 (MST)

The "ou" spelling is the one we've chosen to use on this site. Kerochan no Miko 13:17, 4 July 2007 (MST)
But why did you guys decided to use the "ou spelling" when in the anime episode 106 Haruka's surname appears as "Tenoh"? And as Hitsuji Kinno said I think there's other episode where Michiru's name is spelled as "Kaioh", I'm not sure if it was when she first met Usagi or when she taught art class to Chibiusa and her friend. --Silver 17 20:19, 5 August 2009 (MST)
See here. Kerochan no Miko 22:20, 5 August 2009 (MST)
Ok, I don't have a problem using the "ou spelling", I've always used and seen both "Tenoh" and "Tenou". But who were the "ones who chose and preferred that system"? --Silver 17 22:35, 5 August 2009 (MST)


Sailor Chibichibi[edit]

The reprints *did not* rename her Sailor Chibichibimoon. I checked it against the manga shinsouban. While the *sticker* in the manga shinsouban gave her the name of Chibichibimoon, that was the sticker, while the actual book gives her the name of Sailor Chibichibi. This is because Takeuchi-sensei also drew things for the anime and PGSM. In fact while posting that picture on her website update she called her Sailor Chibichibi according to archive.org The text is still the same. (I read that volume). Plus the crystal is called the Chibichibi Crystal, not the Chibichibimoon crystal. --;; This is why I advocate references. It would make my life easier to argue these points by just smacking down a reference, with a page number... these little debates can go to the wayside without the "Isn't it?" and more "This is where I found it and here's the quote."--Hitsuji Kinno 12:05, 4 July 2007 (MST)

You can add references if you want - there are definitely no rules against them. Kerochan no Miko 13:17, 4 July 2007 (MST)

Error[edit]

Aaron and Manna are not part of the Dracul Arc but rather from the Black Moon along with Spotted Tilmun. The two are mistakenly put under the Dracul Arc category. Could someone please fix that. --Sailorsimon 17:56, 4 March 2012 (MST)

Not sure how that happened, but it's fixed. Kerochan no Miko 18:00, 4 March 2012 (MST)
Thank you. --Sailorsimon 18:32, 4 March 2012 (MST)

Miss Dream[edit]

I think Miss Dream should be added to this list. --Sailorsimon 16:24, 18 March 2012 (MST)

I... don't really see a point? She's less of a separate character than a form of a character, like Dark Mercury or something. Kerochan no Miko 16:54, 18 March 2012 (MST)
Well she could be added like this Hotaru/Sailor Saturn/Miss Dream simply so that this character's name won't be up for debate any longer. Also, it might be useful to do the same for Dark Mercury, as some people call her Darkury or Dark Sailor Mercury.--Sailorsimon 17:12, 18 March 2012 (MST)
That works. Kerochan no Miko 17:39, 18 March 2012 (MST)