Talk:Evil Black Crystal

Slight inconsistency; "水晶" is romanized "suishou" here, but "zuishou" in the Silver Crystal entry. Is either alternative more or less correct than the other? --Rosen 01:55, 25 March 2008 (MST)

My understanding is that such difference is stemmed from the slight difference in pronunciation of "水" when it's placed after different words (a crude analogy would be the different pronunciation of "the" when it's placed before words beginning w/ vowels). So there's no question of which is more correct. --210 05:49, 25 March 2008 (MST)

What he said. The furigana for the Silver Crystal is ず and for the Jakokusuishou it's す. Not inconsistent, not wrong. Just different kanji combinations. Kerochan no Miko 07:24, 25 March 2008 (MST)

Just one handy example from the word "furigana" in Kerochan's comment above: the "gana" part is originally pronounced as "kana," but when placed after "furi," its pronunciation slightly changes. lol I guess there might be some rules for such changes. If so, I've never formally learned them, nor do I think they're rigid ones - it just comes off naturally. --210 00:41, 26 March 2008 (MST)

Enemy Weapon

I think we should but a template Enemy Weapon and the category Enemy Attack Items for this article since Esmeraude used one of her earrings in Ankoku nor Princess to perform Black Vicious Crystal and Vicious Emerald, and Petz used in both the manga and musical to create a tornado.--Sailor Simon 17:10, 11 May 2010

Only one template per article. Kerochan no Miko 17:10, 11 March 2012 (MST)

Also, if a discussion is more than about six months old, it would be a really good idea to ask before assuming it's still valid. Especially since there was no response to this one, so likely no one saw it. I know I didn't. Kerochan no Miko 17:10, 11 March 2012 (MST)

The only other template I see is stubs and that doesn't really count since they are already plenty of article with a template And a stub and that never seemed to bother anyone? Besides the template Stubs is not meant to stay there forever. --Sailorsimon 19:52, 11 March 2012 (MST)

...you just added both the "enemy weapon" and "enemy attack items" templates to this article, Sailorsimon.

Also, I don't see that either one of those is applicable here. From what I understand the Evil Black Crystal is more or less equivalent to the Silver Crystal (albeit in smaller pieces) and that doesn't have a template on it. Kerochan no Miko 20:36, 11 March 2012 (MST)

Er. My bad. You didn't add them, you proposed to add them, but today added a template and a category, neither of which is applicable, IMHO. That's what I meant. Kerochan no Miko 20:38, 11 March 2012 (MST)

First of all, the template "enemy weapon" and the category "enemy attack item" go together, or at least they do in every single articles that has either one of them, for example; Fire Buster. Same thing goes for "Sailor Senshi Weapon" which goes with the category "attack item". Last time I checked, attack item = item you attack with or use/need to perform/during an attack = weapon. Like I said, Esmeraude used her Evil Black Crystal earring to perform an attack twice (both with and without the Ayakashi Sisters), so did Petz in the manga and musicals; they needed that item to perform those specific attacks and used that item's power to perform those attacks (In her fight against Jupiter, Petz clearly states that her attack is meant to show the Evil Black Crystal Earrings' tornado power; she obviously needed the Evil Black Crystal to create her unnamed tornado attack) meaning that it is an enemy attack item, unless my logic fails.

As for the Silver Crystal, it should definitely have its own template as well. I mean if you look at the Silver Crystal Power attack, the Sailor Senshi obviously needed the "Silver Crystal" to perform that attack; it IS therefore a "Sailor Senshi Weapon" and as such goes under the "attack item" category, like the "Space Sword" for example. It IS an object required for a certain or certain attack(s) and to come back to the "Silver Crystal Power" example, note that the "item required" section of the template clearly states : "Silver Crystal", as it should. If this template says the item required for this attack is the Silver Crystal, it would only makes sense therefore that the Silver Crystal be considered an attack item and therefore have the Sailor Senshi Weapon template in its article. Otherwise, that would be like not having that very same template in Space Sword. While the Silver Crystal is used for other things than to fight, it CAN and IS used as a weapon during the course of the series, in all canon. I mean Princess Sailor Moon does use it to destroy the world. If that is not considered a "weapon", then I don't know what is.

In short, both those crystals are used as weapons and are specifically needed in several specific attacks. Therefore, they should both get that template and the associated category as well. --Sailorsimon 21:28, 11 March 2012 (MST)

The first part (with templates and categories) is unnecessary, as you're making an argument against something I didn't say. As for the rest, I completely disagree. A weapon is a weapon and the Silver Crystal is not a weapon even if it can be used as such; the Black Crystal earrings are similar. On this point I will not argue. Kerochan no Miko 21:38, 11 March 2012 (MST)

It's one thing to disagree, it's another to explain your point... which you have not done and that's just... I mean, let me get this straight... you're basically saying that something can only be a weapon if that is its only function... what about the Deep Aqua Mirror then? It's template is clearly "Sailor Senshi Weapon" and yet it was used for other things, such as fortune telling and revealing the truth, in fact it is ONLY considered a weapon because she used it as such for Submarine Reflection: that IS the only instance in which she used her mirror as a weapon... kind of the same way the Silver Crystal is used as such in Silver Crystal Power, I mean... throw me a bone here, I'm just trying to make sense of it all and to understand your point and you're kind of making it hard for me. I'm a detail kind of person, I NEED explanation if I'm going to step down. You don't agree with me on something = that's fine, but at least, explain your point to me. I am trying to see your point for what it is, although frankly I'm not even sure if I get it right, it's just... some things about those kind of articles that use to make sense to me, don't anymore now that you say a weapon can't be anything else then a weapon (if that is indeed what you meant - maybe - I don't know, you really did not make it entirely clear for me). For example, It doesn't make sense to me to have an article say "Item required for this attack is "Silver Crystal" and then go to the Silver Crystal article and see no template at all, whatsoever and no categories either of the likes; like not even say "Attack Items" or simply just "Items". I mean; maybe we should just make another kind of template for items like that perhaps then or something? I don't know, but at least I'm trying to suggest stuff so that we can come to a consensus of some kind. Honestly I thinks it's bit rude to just says "end of discussion" without even explaining what your reasoning is. I mean, they are a lot more articles that would be affected by a stance like that, like I said for example, the Deep Aqua Mirror. Also, by simply saying "On this point I will not argue", that leaves me pretty much hanging and wondering "Oh okay... why?" and "Okay then... what point IS she willing to argue on then?". See, I don't make these long paragraphs just for the sake of it. And no, unlike what you seem to think, I DO NOT do it to harass you. I believe that a long and detailed explanation is only required to get my reasoning and point of view across. I want to make sure that you get what I am trying to say and avoid as much as possible any confusion or misunderstanding BECAUSE ultimately I know that you are the one who makes the final cut; you are the very person I have to get understanding from if I'm going to make it work, and believe it or not; I respect that. I'm just trying to show some courtesy by being thorough. And it often does honestly bug me to see you so quick to end a discussion, especially when you tell me that you are open to discuss. I'm not inside your head, I am not psychic (No, my name isn't Rei-chan.) and do not possess a Deep Aqua Mirror myself (lol!) to see threw the rather short answers you give me. Unless you explain it to me in details, I can't just figure out for myself how your mind works. So please, help me out here :(. --Sailorsimon 22:45, 11 March 2012 (MST)

Discussion is over and off-topic for this talk page anyway. Moved. Kerochan no Miko 06:29, 12 March 2012 (MST)

Primary Function

I have a problem with the comparison between the two crystals to begin with. The SC could be used for just about anything and was therefore not primarily a weapon; that I understand. However, If the primary function of the Evil Black Crystal is to be used to destroy the Earth; In other words, to be used as a weapon of mass destruction; how is it not a weapon? Basically it's main original, not to say only purpose was destruction and chaos so, the term weapon here doesn't seem to far fetch here. --Sailorsimon 17:49, 12 March 2012 (MST)

Its primary function wasn't "to destroy the Earth," it was to give the Black Moon Clan powers (or to put them under Wiseman's power, depending). What they did with those powers varied, just like with the Silver Crystal. Kerochan no Miko 18:15, 12 March 2012 (MST)

This

This should change to match its name in the Kodansha release i think Tsumaranai 22:50, 15 March 2012 (MST)

What's its name in the Kodansha release? --210 01:39, 16 March 2012 (MST)

Malefic Black Crystal. --Sailorsimon 01:54, 16 March 2012 (MST)

I'm a little iffy on this one, just because the Kodansha name is kind of ridiculous. Anyone know if "Evil Black Crystal" is from the ADV subs or something? Kerochan no Miko 05:59, 16 March 2012 (MST)

Yes, it's from the ADV subs. --YnK 14:46, 16 March 2012 (MST)

In that case we're keeping this article as it is. Thanks for checking! Kerochan no Miko 16:23, 16 March 2012 (MST)

Should it be mentioned in the article itself that this name is from ADV then? It is not mentioned in Prince Dimande's article. --Sailorsimon 23:59, 16 March 2012 (MST)

Name Change

I propose the page be moved to "Malefic Black Crystal". It is the translation that both Kodansha and Viz Media have used [1]. If there are no objections after a week, I will sort it out. -Corza Moon (talk) 02:57, 11 December 2019 (EST)

Disagree. "Evil" is a perfectly functional word and I see no reason to change it just because Kodansha and Viz got a thesaurus. Kerochan no Miko (talk) 10:38, 11 December 2019 (EST)

Just thought since Naoko was involved with the translations. Also, the definition of malefic "causing harm or destruction" seems to relate more to the Crystal than Evil "profoundly immoral and wicked". -Corza Moon (talk) 02:46, 12 December 2019 (EST)

1) Your personal opinion regarding semantics isn't a valid argument. 2) The number of people who would recognize the word "evil" is significantly higher than those who would know "malefic." Kerochan no Miko (talk) 10:50, 12 December 2019 (EST)

Beguiling

This is getting silly, but if someone can take this translator's note and make it into a coherent trivia note I'd appreciate it because I can't. Silver (talk) 13:57, 25 May 2021 (EDT)