I'm getting the manga names from http://www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/sailormoon/ so if someone has a better translation of what the original Japanese says, that's cool. I'm also including the MIXX names. --Sakky 13:15, 6 April 2009 (MST)
If we're going to start making articles for all of the Amazoness Quartet attacks, I think we need to come to more of a consensus on exactly what the attacks are, given that some of these are in Japanese and some aren't and I'm not sure where the translations are coming from.... Kerochan no Miko 20:44, 30 April 2010 (MST)
- The kanji and translations of the two articles created so far are the same as in Dies Gaudii's List of Magical Powers in BSSM. Silver 09:41, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- Ian, while a good and useful resource, isn't 100% accurate. I'd rather not just blindly follow everything he says. Kerochan no Miko 11:19, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- Okay, now that I've looked over stuff, it seems to me that the attacks aren't attacks as such. These aren't special attacks that the Quartet can use (like, say, "Burning Mandala" or "Venus Love and Beauty Shock") but rather them just using the power of the Amazon Stone in order to accomplish something. Like, PallaPalla wants to trap Chibi Moon and Saturn, so she uses the "Natto Ball" command to fling natto at them. It seems to me that the power is in the stones themselves and not the specific commands used. (I think it's fine to keep a list of commands used, as we have in the article; I just don't know that we need an article for each of the many commands.) Kerochan no Miko 12:17, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- I understand your point, not all of the commands the Amazoness used (especially PallaPalla's) are attacks as such. However lots of them are like JunJun’s Medicine Ball: whatever power she used, she used it to attack Chibi Moon and Saturn and so if she used a power and a command to attack someone then it's an attack by definition. Same for the other command; if they’re used to attack someone then they are attack. Here is what I propose, when it's a command that is used to attack someone then we write the articles as such and when it’s not then we still have to make an article about it, given that it's a magical command and as such we put the article under the magic category. Just like Submarine Mirror, it’s not an actual attack yet it's a command that make something magical happen and so it's under the magic category. -- Sailor Simon
- First of all, there's disagreement on what exactly the articles should be named. I don't think "Medicine Ball" or "Rattan Ball" should be called "Medicine Ball or "Rattan Ball," for instance. And even if we still came to a consensus on names, there's still the fact that even if they use a command to direct the Amazon Stone's power into an attack, it still looks like it's using the power of the Amazon Stone and not an attack in the same sense that, say, Moon Twilight Flash is an attack.
- For an example, see the Luna-P. Chibiusa used Luna-P to do all kinds of stuff, creating fake guns and fire extinguishers and umbrellas and whatever. We don't have an article for each thing she made with Luna-P, we have just an article for the generic "Luna-P Henge" command. I feel it's the same thing with the Amazon Stones and the various commands they were given, and that we shouldn't create articles for any of the command/attack/magic powers associated with them. Kerochan no Miko 15:14, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- The name aside, I have trouble with your comparison between the Amazoness' command and the Luna-P thing, they're quite different. For one thing when the Amazoness are seen attacking it's not like they always use an object to transform into something which was used afterward, they create energy blast or magical effects, sure the power as to come from somewhere but still I don’t really see the likeliness between the two. As for the name, those from the official subs should be the ones we use, since that's what you did for other articles, for exemple, the Prince Dimande article. -- Sailor Simon
- You have given me no reason to think that we should have articles for these commands except for "I think we should have them." I still say no. Also, names from the official subs are only taken on a case-by-case basis, given that several times the "official" names are very obviously screwed up. Dimande's name was only used because someone would be unhappy no matter which spelling was chosen, so they had to pick one. (I will also note that the choice was made before I started editing this site, as well.) Kerochan no Miko 11:24, 2 May 2010 (MST)
- I'm sorry but I gave you my reasons, and please don't put words in my mouth, I never said «I think we sould have them», I said that because they used a command and a power to attack someone then it's an attack by definition and therefore should have its own article. And you didn't answered my question, how are the Luna P thing and the Amazoness attacks in the manga, which are shown performed without any objects, the same? When Sailor Moon uses her attack she almost always needs an object to do it, her stick, rod, tiara and so on, your exemple, Moon Twilight Flash, is no different. So even those using an objects can be considered attack so long as they serve the purpose of attacking someone. I really don't understand your comparison, besides Luna P is not directly used for any magical attacks. Chibi Moon uses Luna P to transform into something she then uses. They're is quite a difference between that and say PallaPalla waving her hand and saying a comand that makes pieces of glass magically rain on her target. And it's not like Chibi Usa uses the magical power of Luna P to peform an attack either. Plus, The only command Chibi Usa ever uses is Luna P Henge so then again, not really seing the likeliness. Care to elaborate cause I really don't see how you compare the Amazone Stone and Luna P? -- Sailor Simon
- 1) Nowhere did I say that Luna-P and the Amazon Stones are "the same," I was trying to make an analogy to explain my point of view. And the Amazoness attacks all require the use of their Amazon Stones -- otherwise why would the word "ball" be in the title? It's like saying Sailor Moon didn't use her tiara for Moon Tiara Action.
- 2) I did not put words in your mouth. I was roughly paraphrasing. There's a huge difference.
- 3) Even the idea that "Rattan Ball" by whatever name it should be "makes pieces of glass magically rain on her target" is still a matter of opinion; I looked at that panel of the manga and just see speed lines raining down on them. I honestly don't know what it's supposed to be doing.
- At this point I don't think you're even trying to see my side of the argument. I'm done discussing. No more articles. Kerochan no Miko 13:42, 2 May 2010 (MST)
- You used the exemple of Moon Tiara Action, but all I whish to know is exactly that; what makes thoses magical commands used to attack someone, not attacks while at the same time, Moon Tiara Action is one. And if they are attacks, why don't they need articles. My opinion is that they need articles because they are magical commands not because I just «think so». -- Sailor Simon
- And my opinion is that the "magic" inherent in the commands comes from the Amazon Stone and not the Amazoness using it, therefore the lists of commands belong here and/or on the Amazon Stone article. We don't need an individual article for each time the Stone was used, just like how we don't need an article for each time Luna-P was used. Kerochan no Miko 15:21, 2 May 2010 (MST)
- I understand and agree, especially since the manga is not always clear. I have a suggestion though. Maybe we could create a single article with the list of the command used since each command is different, the same way we have an article for Luna P as an object and Luna P Henge. And in the Amazon Stone article we could put a link to that article in the attack(s) required for section. Otherwise I think we should put them in the Amazon stone article and in the Amazoness article we would put under the attack section, for example, something like: Amazon Stone - A stone which PallaPalla used her to perform various commands. Still, I feel there should be so form of disambiguation between the commands and the stone themselves.-- Sailor Simon
- Why do we need a separate article for it when the lists on the AQ articles have been just fine up until now? IMHO, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. Kerochan no Miko 14:49, 3 May 2010 (MST)
- We need to put the list of commands into the already existing Amazone Stone article because they're directly linked, since like you said the power doesn't come from the users but from the stone, therefore it makes more sense to put them in that article. Plus, this will add more explanation to the Various which was put into the attack(s) required for section. What I mean is, instead of having simply Various there will be the complete list right there in said article and who exactly used it, which will make things much more easier for someone like me who wandered just what exactly were those various attacks. And if I was searching for an attack in particular and didn't remembered who among the Quartet used it, then I would simply have to check this one article instead of four until I find what I'm looking for. That's what got me to want to create the articles I did about the AQ attacks. Finally we should move the list because like you said they are not real attacks. The only thing they did to attack as such was used the stone, which is then what we should but under each of their attack sections like it was done for other articles. -- Sailor Simon
- ^...I'm confused about what you want.
- Also, now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say they "are not real attacks." All I want is to leave everything basically as it was before, except with revision to the names of the attacks/commands listed in the AQ articles. And given that each of the AQ used her Amazon Stone for something different, listing every single command in one article would incredibly (and rather hideously) long, plus it would be duplicating information better kept elsewhere. Kerochan no Miko 16:50, 3 May 2010 (MST)
- I'm sorry I meant aren't attacks as such. What I want is to put the list into the Amazone Stone article with a link to the command's performer, and under the attack section of the AQ members article we remove the list and simply put something like: Amazon Stone - A stone which PallaPalla used her to perform various commands. In the same fashion as other articles since what they are using to attack is the stone and not an actual attack. By putting the commands list under the attack section it makes it seems as though they are infact attacks just like any other attacks there is on this site and therefore deserves an article of their own, which we already agreed isn't the case.-- Sailor Simon
- Why are you still arguing this? As I said above, there's no reason to duplicate information found elsewhere, and it would be nothing by a lengthy list of information, which I try to avoid. The simple solution would be simply to change the "Attacks" header to "Attacks and Powers" and done. Easy. Kerochan no Miko 13:06, 4 May 2010 (MST)
- Did you even read what I wrote, I clearely said remove those here and put them in the Amazon Stones article instead, not duplicate them. But if you really want to keep them here, then we need to add a note making it clear as to why those aren't attacks as such but merely commands using their Amazone Stones and don't need articles because of it. Here's what I'm thinking about exactly, In this article for exemple;
- Amazon Stone - PallaPalla used her stone to perform various commands;
- List of said commands.
- That way it's clear why we don't need articles for each commands. There's no need to move anything at all, just adding the precision. -- Sailor Simon
- Of course I read what you wrote. There's no need for you to get insulting. 9_9 I clearly said that we are not removing them here and we are not listing them all in the Amazon Stone article. Period, end of story. Kerochan no Miko 20:16, 4 May 2010 (MST)
- I'm sorry to have insulted you, it wasn't my intention. This said, I'm fine with keeping the list here, however what do you think of my final proposal for this article. I just want to make it clear that they are not attacks as such but commands using the stone's power. But I want your opinion before I do anything.-- Sailor Simon
- I already changed the article. The issue is finished. Kerochan no Miko 10:47, 5 May 2010 (MST)
I know that Dies Gaudii is not the ultimate resource, I was just saying that the kanji and translation of the commands seemed to have been taken from that article. I don't care whether the commands get their own articles or not, though I think that a list of the commands with the name of the technique and a brief description in the user's article is enough. Also, will we ever be able to reach a consensus in the translation of the commands? Silver 17:09, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- Did we have any kind of consensus when it comes to attacks that aren't in English? I think we were going to create a standard for it (whether the article title is the attack name in Japanese or a translation in English) but never did. If I'm remembering correctly then it does need to be done, since that'll solve problems like this.
- In this case, though, I'm just fine (and have been up to this point) with the AQ articles just having lists and descriptions of the various commands they used with the Amazon Stones. Kerochan no Miko 17:49, 1 May 2010 (MST)
- Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. Nevermind.
- But now that you mention it, yes, if we had a standard for the titles of non-English attack names, it would be a lot easier. Silver 01:27, 2 May 2010 (MST)
- Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. Nevermind.
How much would you be willing to bet that this character is actually autistic? -- DENelson83 23:57, 6 June 2011 (MST)