Editing Talk:Sailor Moon in North America

==Toei and Sailor Stars==
The article says "Toei had indicated that the last season, Sailor Moon Sailor Stars, would never be sold to any American company because they believed it would be found objectionable in North America; this included even the first part of Sailor Stars, which completed the end of the SuperS arc." Can someone please tell me where this alleged information came from, because that's the first time I've ever heard this. ~I don't care enough to have a signature -- deal with it~ ''(This unsigned comment was left by [[User:67.181.198.215|67.181.198.215]], 11 November 2015)''

==Cancelled Stars Dub?==
Susan Roman had stated in a interview that there were plans to continue the dub after the S season, found here at [[http://moon-chase.blogspot.com/2011/02/moon-chase-presents-interview-with_07.html]]. I am not saying that there is going to be a Stars dub now, just that there were plans at some point. Should this be mentioned? ''(This unsigned comment was left by [[User:Adfaff|Adfaff]], March 27, 2011)''
:"We were told that there would be more episodes coming down the line" doesn't really equate to "there were plans to continue the dub" but rather there were ''rumors'' that there were plans to continue the dub. Maybe a mention what she said in the interview is worth a trivia note, but otherwise I don't see any concrete "there were plans that were canceled" or anything. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 13:17, 27 March 2011 (MST)

=Splitting Fandom from Officialdom=

Made this a main category because I think it's important.

Right now this page has become a mix of information on official stuff like releases, and information on fandom like fansubs and Alex Glover. I love the info on VKLL and Alex and stuff, but I'm not sure if the pages ought to be mixing the two of them like that. Perhaps we should start a page like Sailor Moon Fandom in North America where we can list all those things.--[[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 08:36, 6 September 2006 (MST)

=General Talk=

We'll have to work really hard not to let POV seep into this article: try to word your arguments carefully, because this is going to be one of those articles that gets people riled. There wasn't anything too bad here, and on the whole it's a very nice article right now, but I've pruned it a bit for POV and the odd inaccuracy. [[User:Dooky|dooky]] 03:51, 10 August 2006 (MST)

:Thanks. This is from my own Sailor Moon wiki (now defunct, and I'm moving any useful content here) and I tried hard to make it as NPOV as possible. =) [[User:Purplefeltangel|Purplefeltangel]] 03:54, 10 August 2006 (MST)
::I think the section on Mixx might need a little of bit of work in that regard. Also, am I right in thinking that some of the translation errors were corrected in the graphic novels? Mine definitely says ''Galaxy Cauldron'', and the only incident of a name being forgotten that I can think of is when Molly is referred to as Naru very late on in the series. [[User:Dooky|dooky]] 04:02, 10 August 2006 (MST)
:::My Mixx errors were taken from [http://www.bunnybeth.net/ambition/mixxtake.html Bunny's Ambition: Mixxtakes] and [http://antares7.absoludicrous.net/articles/mixxisms/index.html Dies Gaudii: Mixxisms]. I actually read the manga in French myself, so I had to rely on secondhand experience. --[[User:Purplefeltangel|Purplefeltangel]] 03:12, 11 August 2006 (MST)

Why was "380 fansubs" included in the article when other, more famous, fansub groups were not? [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 17:41, 10 August 2006 (MST)

:Were they the ones who produced the "partial parody fansubs" of the first episode? I'm not sure they're especially notable, although there was a bit of a furore at the time. Probably not worthy of inclsuion in this article though. [[User:Dooky|dooky]] 18:23, 10 August 2006 (MST)

::I haven't the faintest idea who they are, to be honest. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 19:55, 10 August 2006 (MST)

:::I included them because they were the only ones I'd ever heard of. =) --[[User:Purplefeltangel|Purplefeltangel]] 03:09, 11 August 2006 (MST)

==Fandubs==
I wondered if some of you may remember the fandubs? Dubs made by fans for fans like Mike Sprague's own attempt to fandub SMS and more recently Negavision http://www.negavision.com (the main site is closed for the moment but the forums are still open ^^;) --[[User:sd|sd]] 20:46 Eastern time zone, August 23 2006
:Oh, heavens, Mike Sprague's fandub. The memories. Definitely needs mentioning. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 17:51, 23 August 2006 (MST)

:"Fandubs" or "fansubs"? I've used the latter in the [[PGSM]] page. Pls let me know if I've to change it. [[User:210|210]] 17:55, 23 August 2006 (MST)
::They're two different things. Fandubs have English audio recorded by fans, fansubs have subtitles. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 17:58, 23 August 2006 (MST)
:::I knew it. I'm not completely awake this morning. :P [[User:210|210]] 18:03, 23 August 2006 (MST)

==Logo==
Was that logo used in North America? It's turned up in numerous countries, but all DiC-related stuff I've seen has used a similar but slightly different one, where the text curves in the opposite direction. --[[User:Rosen|Rosen]] 14:56, 29 August 2006 (MST)
:Yes indeed, that logo was used in North America. -- [[User:DENelson83|DENelson83]] 15:00, 29 August 2006 (MST)
::Ok, but you did have (looking...) the logo seen on the [[http://www.algonet.se/~khelatar/pix/dmtreead.jpg box]] here as well? I've only seen that one on things directly connected to the NA dub, unlike the logo in the article. --[[User:Rosen|Rosen]] 22:09, 29 August 2006 (MST)
:::Yeah, that logo was also used on the Mixx manga covers and on the six "pink cover" videos. But most NA merchandise, like my box of Valentines, sound book (one of those books where you press certain buttons during the story to get certain sounds), and subbed VHS movies, used the curvier logo. I think it just depended on who was making the particular book/video/toy/etc. --[[User:Phibby|Phibby]] 22:37, 29 August 2006 (MST)

==Links==

I'm not sure we should have links to bootleg stuff here... once again I think we need to develop a more thorough links policy.--[[User:WikiSysop|WikiSysop]] 07:34, 29 September 2006 (MST)
:Agreed. Go ahead, Mr. Sysop. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 12:09, 29 September 2006 (MST)
::[OT] I feel that your reply above is quite Star-Trekish, Capt. Kerochan. --[[User:210|210]] 18:52, 29 September 2006 (MST)

==Modern?==
Why do we need to differentiate between "modern" dubs and the 80s dubs? I'd personally say Sailor Moon is notable amongst all English dubs, for the reasons stated. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 13:40, 23 December 2006 (MST)

==Changes and Errors==
''The Galaxy Cauldron was translated as Galaxy Cordon''. "Cordon" in what sense? Looking at my dictionary, none of the meanings make sense to me. Well, it's an error, it's not supposed to be meaningful....<br>
"Cordon" makes me think about "Cordón" (Spanish for "Shoelace"). Galaxy Shoelace sounds cool. --[[User:Silver 17|Silver]] 20:19, 16 September 2009 (MST)
:No, none of the meanings do make sense. That's why it was a stupid change on Tokyopop's part. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 20:23, 16 September 2009 (MST)

==English Dub History of Sailor Moon==
Hello everyone at WikiMoon! This is my first discussion post. I added more information about the history of Sailor Moon in English dub so that more people who were at WikiMoon will learn more of that. Here are the additions: 

(1) In Canada, Sailor Moon was aired on YTV for the first time on August 28, 1995 as the North American premiere. In the United States, the series aired on September 11, 1995. So the English dub dates in the Sailor Moon anime episode guide on WikiMoon was in the US instead of Canada, so it might be incorrect.
(2) Since WikiMoon doesn't mention about Sailor Moon in Australia and New Zealand, I added that information instead, but only the anime itself.
(3) In the US, Sailor Moon was also on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Network USA Network] by June 9, 1997, not just in syndication and on Cartoon Network where Sailor Moon was broadcast there. The series was dropped off the schedule on USA Network by the end of 1997 as a result of dropping children's programming.

So that's it. You may just edit the additions in the history section of [[Sailor Moon in North America|that article]] for spelling and/or grammar purposes but please don't delete the additions. Thanks! [[User:24141236210|24141236210]] 19:33, 22 July 2010 (MST)

:The addition was removed because at least part of it was copy/pasted from another website in violation of site policy. (Also, the article is about ''North America'', not Australia or New Zealand.) [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 19:36, 22 July 2010 (MST)

==Edits removed==
The edit that was reverted not only contained biased and iffy information, but it appeared to have been at least in part copy/pasted from Wikipedia. This information needs to be supported by evidence, not opinion, and needs to be original work and not plagiarized. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 13:43, 12 April 2011 (MST)

:To be honest though almost ''this whole article'' is biased and full of iffy information, since a lot of it is not sourced and seems to have bias from one direction or another. I apologize for the Wikipedia mishap, I was using it and a few other sources when double-checking the information and apparently on a few places I forgot to remove it and add the info in my own way. It was only in a few places that it was taken from Wikipedia though, not the whole thing. Most of it was just edits made myself based on info I knew myself and written in my own way; or slightly adding on to what was already on this article. 

:I didn't really think my edits were biased though. I felt neutral about a lot of what I was editing so if it came across that way I'm genuinely surprised. For example when I was editing about fanviews of Cloverway I just put both sides of views I had seen people make before; about how they were better in some ways and just as bad if not worse in other ways. So I didn't really think that was biased (at least not my personal bias XD; ), but whatever. I do see the iffy information thing 100% though, and where I made the mistake of plagiarizing the Wikipedia article about the English adaptation in a few lines. 

:I hope you don't mind, but there are still a couple of things I want to bring up here. (regarding possible edits to the article) I'm not going to include any links at the moment since I don't have the time to look for links right now, but I'll be sure to do that first thing later today when I get back on. I still thought I'd go ahead and do it anyway though since a few could possibly still be done depending on what you think; and since I thought it'd be best to discuss this first than re-add any of my edits since there's no need to re-add them if it'll end up being removed again. 

:'''"The series was a 65-episode package, with seven episodes cut for reasons unknown."'''
:I'm willing to leave the 65-episode thing alone since that was all that was done originally, and I'm just going to take that line as meaning the amount originally done instead of bought or the total actually done. (after re-reading it carefully a couple of times I saw you could interpret that line a couple of different ways) Otherwise it is wrong though since the actual bought amount was 72, and the actual amount completed was 82. And yes, I actually do have links that prove that. 

:'''"After two years, DiC was convinced to purchase and dub another hundred and twenty episodes."''' 
:To be honest I had never heard anything about DiC buying anything past the season two episodes. I'll do a search on this and see if I can find anything to double-check, but I always heard that DiC bought the least amount of episodes as possible and had little to no interest in future seasons of Sailor Moon (namely S-onward) because they thought that there was just too much they would have to do for those episodes. Which kind of makes sense, considering DiC's strict editing policy. There would be a lot to edit in those seasons and all those edits would cost a lot a well, so they probably didn't have the money to do that. That's just something I always heard though, so it might not be too accurate either. I'll see what comes up in my search later today. 

:'''"Toei has indicated that the last season, Sailor Moon Sailor Stars, will never be sold to any American company, because it would be found objectionable in North America. Even the first part of Sailor Stars, which is the end of the SuperS arc, will never be officially released in North America."''' 
:I know that Toei has never sold Stars to any American company hence why we've never gotten a Stars dub; but I've ''never'' seen anything suggesting the reasons behind it or that it would ''never'' be brought here. I have heard ''tons of rumors'' about why they never allowed it to be bought, but those were just rumors and I usually leave that kind of stuff alone when editing articles. 

:'''"Because of the rush to complete the show in time for its summer run, there was not enough time to rescore the show, or make as many changes. The more faithful scripts may also have been influenced by demand from the fans."'''
:While the time limit thing is very possible and could have been the cause for that, I've always heard that it was because Cloverway is the American branch of Toei, the company that produced Sailor Moon. Every dubbing company has a different style so I think it makes more sense that the change in dubbing style (more faithful scripts, keeping original music and sound effects, ect.) is due to the change in company than the lack of time and/or demand of fans making them change their minds on trying to be DiC 2.0, lol. Something else that makes me think this even more is that Cloverway never edited ''anything'' in their dub except when CartoonNetwork would send something back to them and tell them to edit it out; which if they were really that interested in being like Dic as much as possible that they would have made similar edits beforehand. But I guess the best way to know for sure is I'll check for more info on Cloverway's other dubs, and if they were done in a similar fashion to Sailor Moon then we'd know (or be pretty sure) that that's just the Cloverway standard, not what Cloverway was forced to do considering the situation. The whole company style thing was also most likely the reason behind the more faithful scripts, not fan demands. That could have been possible too though, since I know some Sailor Moon petitions have made a difference before. (like SOS making Dic finish up season 2, which they originally didn't want to do) I just think it's more likely a company thing.

:'''"However, Cloverway's episodes had many mistakes and inconsistencies, also because of the speedy production."''' 
:That's most definitely true. I also read that another reason was due to the Cloverway dub having some of the same writers as the DiC dub, which the Optimum productions website verifies by saying that it worked on for "Sailor Moon R, S and Super S (159 epidodes & 3 features)". And part of their work is adapting dialogue for shows too, so part of their work for Sailor Moon was that as well. http://www.optimumprod.com/recent.html

:And that's everything, I suppose. [[User:1dbad|1dbad]] 05:49, 13 April 2011 (MST)
::The fact that you plagiarized a significant chunk of the information (when I randomly check three sections and they all come back to wikipedia that's more than a little suspicious) kind of invalidates a lot of your argument. However, you also included opinion (quality of the dub, views of homosexuality, claims that SOS actually had a significant impact on anything) and a lot of this comment you just left is about what you ''heard''. I don't care what you ''heard'', I care about what you can ''prove''. I'm sure a lot of this article could be rewritten, but I'm not interested in replacing biased information with more biased information. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 13:15, 13 April 2011 (MST)

:::Like I said though, not all of it was plagiarized from Wikipedia, so I don't quite see why that should affect ''all'' of my edit when it should only affect the part that was plagiarized. I realize it looks suspicious but I think when looking through my edits (besides the whole translated titled mess) enough of my edits weren't bad or plagiarized, and when you combine that with the fact that not all of my edit here was plagiarized I think that shows that at least some of it isn't bad. But fair enough. As for the opinion thing, well, the quality of the dub opinion thing was already there on the article, so I was just expanding on it and re-wording it a bit because I thought that would help. The views of homosexuality thing I actually read on Wiki and a couple of other sites, and that's actually just the truth of the matter of why the relationship was changed. Homosexuality is just a touchy topic in the US sadly, and it's an even touchier subject in material that is thought of to be for children here. And the SOS thing was due to two articles I read saying that they had an impact. (in hind-sight though I realize I should have said they "might" have had an effect on continuing the dub, or just left it out) I won't deny a lot of what is I left was what I heard. I won't deny that a couple of things were wrong when I looked into it some more. And I won't deny that a bit of it was plagiarized from Wikia. But some of it I had actually read on sites as well, and are factual. I must say I wouldn't have added what I heard though and I would have referenced what I added in the first place but I saw proof for a very small percentage of the article and a lot of it seemed to be what other users had heard as well (since a lot of it seemed to be rumor-ish or based on opinions) hence why I didn't in the first place. Not that that's too valid of a reason, but when you see stuff like that and it hasn't been changed it kind of misleads you about what's required for edits on the article. I got it now though, and I definitely see why you don't want to add anything else unless there's proof and agree with it. 

:::'''IMPORTANT EDIT:''' Darn, I spent some time researching and I could only find links for the SOS thing (two links) and a link about Cloverway's Americanization of the dub. (three links) Turns out a lot of links I used to have for these kinds of things don't work so we might as well forget this then. I still definitely think the article could use a big cleaning up sometime though. So much of it is unreferenced and biased that it definitely needs it, lol. [[User:1dbad|1dbad]] 18:37, 13 April 2011 (MST)

==North America==
I've edited the opening paragraph to include links to the Mexican and French dubs; Mexico and French-speaking parts of Canada are also in North America, so this should help people looking for that information navigate the wiki. (I suppose if I changed the title of this page to Sailor Moon in North America (English), I'd have a lot of link-backs to chase down and modify, hm?) ''(This unsigned comment was left by [[User:Ketarra|Ketarra]], 23 August 2011)''
:If you summarily changed the title of this article you would be in violation of the wiki's page move policy, so I wouldn't suggest doing it.
:This article exists to cover the English dub as aired in the United States and Canada. While I agree that it should probably be "Sailor Moon in English" at this point it has existed for far too long and is linked far too many places to change the title, though some clarification is likely in order. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 16:41, 23 August 2011 (MST)
::I figured as much, which is why I added the line linking to other pages on this wiki which have information about non-English versions aired in North America. Even if I could change every page linking back to this in the wiki, I can't do anything about outside pages, so I agree it's best to leave the title as is for that reason. (And I thought adding "English" after "North American" on the anime pages was a fairly uninvasive clarification.) Is this the right place to start a discussion about both these topics? (Incidentally, did you undo all my edits but this one? Because I'd fixed some typos as I went along, too.) --[[User:Ketarra|Ketarra]] 19:23, 23 August 2011 (MST)
:::The standard is to ''replace'' "North American" with "English" when it's used in an article; "North American English" is simply too unwieldy and kind of pointless besides. That's why I changed all of your edits, I didn't "undo" all of them. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 20:16, 23 August 2011 (MST)

== This whole website barely acknowledges the existence of the Viz dub ==

Since the new Viz Dub is literally the only one currently available, and since it has effectively supplanted the DiC and Cloverway dubs, there needs to be more front-and-center attention given to it. Way too many articles still refer to DiC and Cloverway as "THE English dub" instead of "the FIRST English dub" or "the OLD English dub" like they should. The episode articles should also have more trivia points acknowledging the existence of the Viz dub, such as the fact that the Viz dub includes the episodes that DiC skipped and that it is the first time those skipped episodes have received an official English dub. The other Sailor Moon wiki at fandom has the same problem. [[Special:Contributions/50.24.16.38|50.24.16.38]] 17:26, 8 March 2021 (EST)
:The point of a wiki is that everyone can contribute to it, meaning that, if you feel that information is missing or incomplete, you are perfectly welcome, if not ''invited'', to make the needed changes rather than demanding that some nebulous "somebody" do all the work for you. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] ([[User talk:Kerochan no Miko|talk]]) 20:52, 8 March 2021 (EST)
::It's kind of hard for me to do that when a sysop like you removes my contributions. I made notes about the Viz dub and you removed them. [[Special:Contributions/50.24.16.38|50.24.16.38]] 12:30, 9 March 2021 (EST)
:::I didn't see how either of the removed notes were relevant/significant enough to merit being trivia notes. If you have an issue with a particular edit, please take it up on the talk page for the article in question. Also, feel free to make the edits that you were previously complaining needed to be made. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] ([[User talk:Kerochan no Miko|talk]]) 18:02, 9 March 2021 (EST)
::::See [https://wikimoon.org/index.php/Talk:Protect_the_Children%27s_Dreams!_Friendship_Linked_by_Anime here] and [https://wikimoon.org/index.php/Talk:Leave_it_to_the_Moon_for_Love_Aid  here] [[Special:Contributions/50.24.16.38|50.24.16.38]] 21:22, 9 March 2021 (EST)
The mention of the Viz dub in this article is put in a small section called "The Second Wave" almost as if it's just tacked on as an afterthought. I added more details, and then Kerochan no Miko came in and added more details but removed the examples I gave of what the Viz dub retained. I think there should be at least a few examples, particularly the ones that most of the fandom complains about Such as "Great Ruler" being changed to "Negaforce." I also wanted to add some lines about how the dialog is more faithful to the original and use the fact that Haruka and Michiru are no longer "cousins" to cover up their homosexuality and how this reflects changes in anime dubbing style between the 2000s vs the 2010s. So far, almost every attempt I've made to give this wiki better acknowledgement of the Viz dub has been removed, so far this wiki hasn't been very inviting. [[Special:Contributions/50.24.16.38|50.24.16.38]] 13:11, 11 March 2021 (EST)
:Your version:
:''The Viz dub retains most of the original names and terminology that the older dubs changed (Usagi instead of Serena, Dark Kingdom instead of Negaverse, etc.). But there were minor changes, such as Sailor Mercury's Sabão Spray being called "Bubble Spray."''
:My edited version:
:''The Viz dub retained most of the original names and terminology that the older dubs changed, although it did include minor changes, such as translating "[[Sailor Senshi|Senshi]]" as "Guardian," using "[[Tuxedo Mask]]" instead of "Tuxedo Kamen," or having [[Sailor Mercury]] use "Bubble Spray" instead of "[[Sabão Spray]]."''
:The examples were not of "what the Viz dub retained" but of "what DiC/Cloverway removed" and therefore wasn't relevant in that section of the article. I instead ''expanded'' on what you already added about the part that ''was'' relevant to that section.
:The "second wave" section is short ''because nobody has added to it''. You don't think there's enough text there? Cool, '''add some'''. Throwing in unnecessary section headers to make it "look more fleshed out" doesn't actually make it fleshed out; please, if you have information, '''add it'''. I currently don't have the time to do so, and just telling me what I should do doesn't give me more hours in my day to do it.
:So far, most of what I've seen you do is complain about what we don't have without good-faith efforts to 1) learn how our style guidelines work or 2) make contributions other than a couple lines here and there. Please feel free to make valid contributions and ''help'' with the wiki instead of assuming bad faith from the get-go. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] ([[User talk:Kerochan no Miko|talk]]) 21:02, 11 March 2021 (EST)
::You noted that Viz translates "Senshi" as "guardian" but based on the "Sailor Senshi" article, it seems you know that translation did not originate with Viz since it was being used in the live action series and Crystal. Should this be noted in this article as well? [[Special:Contributions/50.24.16.38|50.24.16.38]] 20:06, 12 March 2021 (EST)
:::Re: the removed edit note: I have "acknowledged" the need for more detail about the Viz dub since the Viz dub became a thing. Please don't ascribe motives or intent to me that don't exist. (I have watched pretty much none of the Viz dub and thus don't have extensive knowledge of it, which is the reason I haven't contributed very much regarding that dub to this wiki. It's not because I don't care or think it unimportant.) [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] ([[User talk:Kerochan no Miko|talk]]) 00:09, 14 March 2021 (EST)