Difference between revisions of "Template talk:Civilian Identities"

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:::::::::::::: As for the Oppositio Senshi, they are not notable enough to receive separate articles  for civilian and Senshi forms. Regardless there is a change in form between the two forms, they share the same name. The articles just need to be expanded to discuss the differences. [[User:Cartwheelingfiesta|Cartwheelingfiesta]] 20:50, 11 April 2011 (MST)
 
:::::::::::::: As for the Oppositio Senshi, they are not notable enough to receive separate articles  for civilian and Senshi forms. Regardless there is a change in form between the two forms, they share the same name. The articles just need to be expanded to discuss the differences. [[User:Cartwheelingfiesta|Cartwheelingfiesta]] 20:50, 11 April 2011 (MST)
  
:::::::::::::::...of course it makes a difference. If they're not a civilian then they aren't a "civilian identity." Usagi is a civilian and CereCere isn't, so your comparison doesn't really work. I'm not ignoring the musicals or anything else, I simply don't see CereCere as an ordinary human being doing ordinary human being stuff ''and'' a person entirely different from CereCere the Amazoness. There is no "end of story" here because I honestly don't think you're even listening to what I'm trying to say. And it's the same with the Oppositio Senshi: it's not that they aren't ''notable'' enough to have separate articles, it's that they don't have separate identities to have articles ''about''. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 21:16, 11 April 2011 (MST)
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:::::::::::::::...of course it makes a difference. If they're not a civilian then they aren't a "civilian identity." Usagi is a civilian and CereCere isn't, so your comparison doesn't really work. I'm not ignoring the musicals or anything else, I simply don't see CereCere as an ordinary human being doing ordinary human being stuff ''and'' a person entirely different from CereCere the Amazoness. There is no "end of story" here because I honestly don't think you're even listening to what I'm trying to say. (And I'm seriously confused why you're throwing in stuff about the wiki being in past tense considering that ''nowhere'' on this side that I've found does it refer to CereCere as the "civilian identity of Sailor Ceres".) And it's the same with the Oppositio Senshi: it's not that they aren't ''notable'' enough to have separate articles, it's that they don't have separate identities to have articles ''about''. [[User:Kerochan no Miko|Kerochan no Miko]] 21:16, 11 April 2011 (MST)

Revision as of 00:17, 12 April 2011

This template was hard to find <..<

Propose for

Miss Butterfly, Miss Dream, Sin, Nabu, Nergal, Marduk, Ishitar and Shiva to be added to the template and have
Chuuko Nezu/Chuu Rat, Reiko Aya/Half Bird and Akane Karasuma/Manila Karasu instead of just anime identies
Also to have CereCere, PallaPalla, JunJun and VesVes separated... Cartwheelingfiesta 23:11, 10 April 2011 (MST)
Do the Oppositio Senshi have civilian identities?
I don't really know that the Amazoness Quartet count as "civilian identities" as such; they were simply warped versions of Sailor Senshi. I'm wondering why they're on there. Kerochan no Miko 23:25, 10 April 2011 (MST)
Those are the oppositio senshi identities. Their real names and Senshi names are the same thing. They are not warped versions, they were discontent citizens of Crystal Tokyo given senshi powers by Apsu... Nabu, Nergal, Marduk and Sin were chosen... Ishtar, was just walked into the tractor beam. CereCere is ... Sailor Ceres o.o Cartwheelingfiesta 23:27, 10 April 2011 (MST)
What do you mean the Amazoness Quartet are warped senshi? They're the identities they take on Earth prior to being Sailor Senshi Cartwheelingfiesta 23:35, 10 April 2011 (MST)
If they're Senshi then they don't have civilian identities to list. They'd need to have a different identity to qualify.
As for the Quartet, IIRC they were truly intended to be the Asteroid Senshi, but Nehellenia found and warped them into the enemies they became. They didn't switch back and forth between a civilian identity and a Senshi one, once they were purified they stayed Senshi. Kerochan no Miko 23:42, 10 April 2011 (MST)
Their names were the same. Before they were Senshi. They were called Ishtar and Nabu. After they became Senshi, they kept the same names. In civilian form she is called "Sin" as a Sailor Senshi she is also called "Sin". Have you played the game?...
There's no evidence at all for that at all, we don't know what they got up to in Crystal Tokyo or what happened to them after Transylvania no Mori. In the musicals. They were not "warped" into villains. They were a little brainwashed, they were senshi and their names were given CereCere, PallaPalla, JunJun and VesVes. They are Senshi and on Earth they were known as those names, which is what a civilian identity is. Cartwheelingfiesta 23:48, 10 April 2011 (MST)
I don't understand your logic, in the manga and musicals. CereCere became Sailor Ceres. That was her identity as a civilian. She is a Sailor Senshi. Cartwheelingfiesta 23:50, 10 April 2011 (MST)
A civilian identity is an identity that is entirely separate from their Senshi identity, normally used to keep people from realizing that said Senshi is a Senshi. If they don't switch between a Senshi form and an "ordinary" form then... they don't have a separate civilian identity.
According to the manga the Asteroid Senshi were intended to be the Asteroid Senshi but were awakened and brainwashed by Nehellenia. Therefore, the Amazoness Quartet isn't their "civilian form" it's their brainwashed form, like Sailor Mercury vs. Dark Mercury. Kerochan no Miko 00:23, 11 April 2011 (MST)
Thats not true for any of the Solar System senshi but Setsuna. They were born, they discovered they were Sailor Senshi. Unless you're going to deny that Usagi Tsukino is not a civilian. Akumi was the civilian form of Dark Mercury... Its not relevant. Akumi might need to be added too... Since she's so different to regular Ami. The Amazoness Quartet do NOT have Sailor Senshi powers. They just have a type of magic from their Amazon Stones. The Sailor Quartet were discovered to be the Amazoness Quartet. The same way with any other character who did not disguise themselves. The Amazoness Quartet existed as civilians, they lived on Earth and lived in a community alongside humans. Also in the musicals they were born from Chibiusa's star seed and were Senshi and giving civilian names. I'm not sure what your argument is. Besides even if they were brainwashed, they were still given civilian identities weren't they? Whats your argument. A civilian form in most cases is not chosen. As for the Oppositio Senshi, their Senshi names and civilian names happen to be the same. They however are different forms just like Usagi and Sailor Moon. Thats kind of the point. Cartwheelingfiesta 00:37, 11 April 2011 (MST)
...at this point I have no idea what your argument is. Of course Usagi is a civilian. What does that have to do with anything...? Kerochan no Miko 00:53, 11 April 2011 (MST)
CereCere awoke to be Sailor Ceres. Its got nothing to do with her being brainwashed. "What if Nehellenia never awoke her to be CereCere, then she wouldn't be called that", thats all I can see your argument as. In "Sailor Moon'" it happened. There is no alternative. What did happen is that she became CereCere, then she awoke to be Sailor Ceres. She lived as the civilian CereCere. Same goes with the other three girls. I'm comparing Cere to Usagi, Usagi was Usagi, she lived as civilian Usagi, Usagi became Sailor Moon. The Oppositio Senshi became Sailor Senshi, but they did not receive new names, thats all. They have different forms for civilian and Senshi, they just have the same name. Cartwheelingfiesta 00:57, 11 April 2011 (MST)
CereCere was never a civilian, though. She was a brainwashed minion of Nehellenia, then she was a Sailor Senshi. She never had an "ordinary" civilian identity. And if the Oppositio Senshi didn't have separate civilian and Senshi identities I don't know how we're supposed to list them as civilians when they were Senshi. Kerochan no Miko 01:07, 11 April 2011 (MST)
Again, the Oppositio were not always Senshi. Apsu gave them the power to become senshi. They were regular people beforehand. CereCere in the musicals and manga were not "brainwashed", she had her own will, she was naive. She was a civilian during the Yume arc, just because she was inside a circus most of the time doesn't mean shes not a civilian. Civilian means "not a soldier" in usual english. She did not fight most of the time. She was a trapeze artist who sprinkles flowers on people while PallaPalla did the work. In the musicals this was the same thing minus the circus. What are YOU defining as a civilianCartwheelingfiesta 02:18, 11 April 2011 (MST)
Before they were Senshi they were simply civilians. Not civilian identities of Senshi. And once they were Senshi, they no longer had civilian identities. This... doesn't seem all that complicated to me, so I really don't understand why you keep arguing with me about it.
And since you keep using CereCere as an example, she also never had a separate identity. She was a minion of the Dead Moon who happened to like being a trapeze artist when she wasn't trying to steal Dream Mirrors. She wasn't an entirely different identity with a different name and a different life - even when she was attacking people she'd introduce herself as a trapeze artist who, oh by the way, works for Nehellenia. She wasn't sometimes CereCere the Amazoness and sometimes Cindy Smith, the trapeze artist. Again, there was no separation between "civilian" and "agent of the Dead Moon." Kerochan no Miko 02:21, 11 April 2011 (MST)
It doesn't make a difference. Just because she's associated with the Dead Moon doesn't make her any less of a civilian. Not all civilians are pure and good. What difference does it make? CereCere BECAME Sailor Ceres. That does NOT make CereCere redundant. Usagi became Neo-Queen Serenity. That doesn't mean Usagi is no longer a civilian. On Earth she went by CereCere as a trapeze artist for the Dead Moon Circus. Besides you've completely ignored the musicals. CereCere the Amazoness is a civilian because she took that identity on Earth. Her connected to an evil syndicate makes her nothing less of a civilian. Also Dream Mirrors are present in the ANIME only. CereCere was NEVER Sailor Ceres there. Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks Cere is the form Sailor Ceres took as a civilian as the Amazoness Quartet is listed on the panel already, I'm just saying they should be separated.
Once again: On Earth, Sailor Ceres took on the name CereCere, this is her civilian form, as opposed to her Senshi form regardless of her connection to Nehellenia. This wikia is written in the past tense anyway, "CereCere was the civilian identity of Sailor Ceres"... this is true as CereCere became Sailor Ceres. End of story.
As for the Oppositio Senshi, they are not notable enough to receive separate articles for civilian and Senshi forms. Regardless there is a change in form between the two forms, they share the same name. The articles just need to be expanded to discuss the differences. Cartwheelingfiesta 20:50, 11 April 2011 (MST)
...of course it makes a difference. If they're not a civilian then they aren't a "civilian identity." Usagi is a civilian and CereCere isn't, so your comparison doesn't really work. I'm not ignoring the musicals or anything else, I simply don't see CereCere as an ordinary human being doing ordinary human being stuff and a person entirely different from CereCere the Amazoness. There is no "end of story" here because I honestly don't think you're even listening to what I'm trying to say. (And I'm seriously confused why you're throwing in stuff about the wiki being in past tense considering that nowhere on this side that I've found does it refer to CereCere as the "civilian identity of Sailor Ceres".) And it's the same with the Oppositio Senshi: it's not that they aren't notable enough to have separate articles, it's that they don't have separate identities to have articles about. Kerochan no Miko 21:16, 11 April 2011 (MST)