Talk:Silver Crystal

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1)The template "Sailor Senshi Item" should be put into this article because it is primarily a Sailor Senshi item.

2)Although it is used for many other things, the category "attack item" should be apply here as the Silver Crystal was used in magical attacks, such as Silver Crystal Power. Note that this category is applied in articles for item that are not weapon as well but can act as one in precise cases. --Sailorsimon 17:36, 12 March 2012 (MST)

No. I already said this discussion was over. It is over and there will be no template added to this article. Kerochan no Miko 18:14, 12 March 2012 (MST)
Why no templates at all though? I mean templates are useful tools for finding quick information, especially on an item that is this important to the series. --Sailorsimon 21:53, 12 March 2012 (MST)
Not every article requires a template, and this is one of them, mostly because none of the existing templates really fits it well. Kerochan no Miko 05:47, 13 March 2012 (MST)

Pink Moon Crystal and Ginzuishou Debate[edit]

I realize this is sketchy at best, but I figured I would get it started. I am not entirely sure about the Pink Moon Crystal part at the bottom there, that's just how I understand it. The two Ginzuishou are physically the same crystal just from different times, correct? I hope this at least gives us a starting point. Please fix/update as needed!  :D --Sakura 18:36 1 June 2006 (EST)

Ooh... tricky one. I can tell you that the Pink Moon Crystal is not referenced in the anime. In the anime, there's no evidence that Chibiusa has the Silver Crystal after R, and I always assumed she just transformed in the same way as Sailor Moon did before getting the crystal. In fact, Chibiusa uses Moon Prism Power, which is Sailor Moon's pre-Crystal transformation. All I can say is to keep the discussion of the Pink Moon Crystal to the manga sections, because there's no evidence Chibiusa has the Silver Crystal in the anime. Dooky 17:51, 1 June 2006 (MST)
Amusingly enough, in some of the myus she does have the ginzuisho.--WikiSysop 21:03, 1 June 2006 (MST)

Hello everyone; I took the liberty of ordering the page a bit better per sections so it wasn't confusing (adding the "Metamorphic", "Links" and "Translations" sections) before adding my own input. I hope you find now the page easier to read. CosmicUsagi 02:04, 21 September 2007 (MST)

Neo Queen Selenity "passes the Crystal down" to Small Lady?[edit]

I'm not sure about the paragraph in the "evolution" part in the manga section where there's a sentence which says Neo Queen Selenity passed the crystal down to Chibiusa, it is not so clear whether the Pink Moon Crystal is the Silver Crystal that used to be Neo Queen Selenity's in my opinion... Chibimoon's crystal could still be a new Silver Crystal that she created altogether: we know for a fact that Neo Queen Selenity gave up or lost her power to transform; however, we can't say the same for the Crystal for sure, can we? I've done a lot of research on this matter and to my knowledge there is no truly conclusive evidence supporting either theory. I'm all for offering spoilers the reader might find useful/interesting in the site but this can't be thought as a real spoiler since it's a matter of interpretation and not really 100% proven. My belief is, that being so, we should let people do their own interpretation of it instead of stating it in either way.

I only request you reconsider that particular sentence's deletion and rewriting of the text fragment with something of the sort: "While it was in Usagi's possession, the Silver Crystal evolved into a form known as the Silver Moon Crystal. Usagi gave up her ability to become Sailor Moon when she ascended the throne as Neo-Queen Serenity in the 30th Century in Crystal Tokyo and passed this ability down to her daughter, Small Lady, also known as ChibiUsa. The Silver Crystal in ChibiUsa's transformation brooch eventually evolved and became the Pink Moon Crystal, allowing her to transform into her "eternal" form as Sailor Chibi Moon" (This way, we'd be sticking strictly to the facts along with letting people make their own conclusions as to whether Chibiusa's Silver Crystal is a new one or her mother's) CosmicUsagi 02:04, 21 September 2007 (MST)

If no one objects to this, I will change that paragraph. Are you okay with it?CosmicUsagi 14:06, 22 September 2007 (MST)

There; I tried to make it as factual as possible.

Pink Moon Crystal as new Silver Crystal: Possible reasons[edit]

Since the reasons for thinking Chibimoon's crystal is Neo Queen Selnity's are already known (I guess) I will just describe the reasons for the "new Silver Crystal" theory just in case so everyone can now why I bring this up (please excuse if it turns out a bit long), and I will leave the rest to your judgement. Some of this evidence is from different arcs but none of this arcs explicitly refer to alternate universes so aren't the five manga arcs still supposed to be considered as a whole and single one story?

The reasons are:

1) It's supposed to be her starseed; Seiya says sailor crystals are created as special starseeds, not that they bond with starseeds, but that they're starseeds in themselves; the Silver Crystal is Usagi/Neo Queen Selenity's, and we saw what happened to the future selfs of the senshi when the crystals of their past selves were taken... without her starseed, how can Neo Queen Selenity still be alive and well?

2) In the Black Moon arc when Neo Queen Selenity wakes up and Chibimoon (already transformed) talks to her, we see an image of Sailor Venus watching the two and still holding the Silver Crystal of the future in her hands, which Usagi had given to her for safe keeping early on when she took the crystals of the past and future from Diamond... so the glowing diamond-shaped object in Chibiusa's hands while she was transforming earlier couldn't have been the Silver Crystal of the future, since much later Venus still has it in her hands.

3) When ChibiUsa transforms we're not shown any type of reaction from Venus at the crystal of the future (which was at the time in her hands) either glowing/teleporting away or reacting in any way... everyone was looking solely at ChibiUsa, so there's no conclusive proof that the crystal that appears in the panel below the initiation of her transformation, and then in her hands, is the same Silver Crystal of the future that was previously in Venus' care, and not one she could've created on her own.

4) In the Dark Kngdom arc Sailor Moon manifests the ability of creating new weapons spontaneously, for example a new tiara. It's been speculated this is because she has the Crystal hidden inside her. If this is true, Neo Queen Selenity shows to still posess this ability long after Chibimoon's first transformation: Neo Quen Selenity gives her rod to Chibimoon and sends her to outer space to help Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Kamen destroy planet Nemesis; they destroy it and Sailor Moon's rod shatters, her transformation brooch breaks; then Neo Queen Selenity raises her arm and a brand new scepter appears in her hand (it is brand new because it's heart-shaped and both Sailor Moon's rod and Neo Queen Selenity's rod which she'd given to Chibimoon were round shaped... She might have created this new scepter for Sailor Moon spontaneously, and she also gave Sailor Moon a new brooch and new powers to the inner senshi.

5) In the Infinity arc we learn Sailor Pluto's been revived in the past by Neo Queen Selenity's power. The concept of a power trascending time and space was previously asociated with the Silver Crystal in the Black Moon arc, and certainly sending a soul to be reincarnated so many centuries in the past is something that would require this sort of power.

6) In the infinity arc when Hotaru/Mistress 9 snatches the Crystal from Chibimoon, she loses the transformation and is left comatose... then dreams about floating in a black void and finding her Silver Crystal. She says she needs it because it's a part of hre body, then Hotaru's ghost appears and says it's her spirit/heart, so she shouldn't be off without it or show it to strangers.

7) If the Silver Crystal is truly passed down from mother to daughter that way, and Small Lady acquires the crystal in a traumatic event like Pluto's death, why didn't princess Selenity acquire the crystal in the same way when Endimion died protecting her in their past-lives? Queen Selenity says in her confusion of having lost her daughter she couldn't use the cristal to seal Metaria permanently hence the crystal was still hers even after her daughter had undergone such a traumatic event. Why was her trauma able to make the cristal Chibiusa's and not princess Selenity's, in her case? Is losing your lover less of a trauma than losing your friend? If every one of them create their own ginzuishou on the other hand, princess Selenity could have created her ginzuishou when Endimion died and Queen Selenity could still have used hers to seal Metaria. It could have been her own ginzuishou that was hidden in her body when she's reborn (which she had created in her past-life when Endimion died), and it comes to light when Endimion dies in Sailor Moon's arms a second time. This could explain why her mother's cristal didn't "become" Princess Selenity's when she lost someone dear to her, unlike Chibiusa's own case with Pluto, and still have it all make sense... it could also explain why the Silver Crystal was Princess SeLenity's and not Queen Selenity's in the live-action series, so may be another point in favor of the three cristals theory?

8) King Endymion says two versions of the same object can't be together in the same place at the same time without affecting each other's powers, yet Sailor Moon and Chibimoon use the powers of their crystals simultaneously to defeat Nemesis and in the 20th Century with no problem.

If you happen to find better and preferably conclusive reasons to support the other theory of the Pink Moon Crystal being Neo Queen Serenity's Ginzuishou, then please feel free to add/edit to this post as you see fit CosmicUsagi 02:04, 21 September 2007 (MST)


Three of those new links seem like helpful references, but the supposed "Mythology of the Silver Crystal" one has only a small amount of information on the crystal (midway through a page full of other information) and I'm somewhat unsure the link belongs here. Kerochan no Miko 09:50, 27 September 2006 (MST)

I agree, as much as I love the Henshin Website I think that link has too small an amount of info on the crystal to justify being added as an external link. However that is not to say it couldn't prove useful elsewere on WikiMoon or for use as a referance should the need arise. But for now I think it should be removed. --GracieLizzie 10:42, 27 September 2006 (MST)
I third that. It's a small paragraph in the middle of tons of other stuff. I removed it.--Sakky 11:25, 27 September 2006 (MST)

Silver Crystal being "metamorphic"[edit]

I would debate the point that the Silver Crystal is "metamorphic" - it only changed form once (to the "flower" form) that I recall, and that seemed to be only because it was awakened to its full power. It did look different in the S movie, though, and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with the rest of continuity. Kerochan no Miko 09:18, 10 October 2006 (MST)

Nobody seemed to care, so I just took that sentence out. Kerochan no Miko 16:57, 3 November 2006 (MST)

Uh-oh I think I misunderstood you. I though you were starting a debate, then closing it because there were no replies. I checked the history page, however, and I realized that the "Silver Crystal being metamorphic" was something another user added but that you reverted. So yes, it's pointless. The term "metamorphic" was not very correct anyway. I would also like to discuss about the pyramidal shape of the Silver Crystal in the S movie, but thas was already included in the article so I guess there's nothing to discuss about. Oh, and I posted it here because I was talking about the possibility of the differents crystals within the brooches being the Silver Crystal. --Silver 06:41, 18 September 2009 (MST)

Oh, sorry, I though it was no longer needed --Silver 13:30, 18 September 2009 (MST)
When you take away part of a conversation and leave the rest, it leaves the remaining part to look completely stupid and incomprehensible. Kerochan no Miko 13:54, 18 September 2009 (MST)
Yes, even I could deduce that all by myself. Sorry, but you told me to not delete your comments, and I personally do not do so because I consider it quite rude. If my comment it's pointless, then I don't a reason fot retain it, but whatever. --Silver 14:25, 18 September 2009 (MST)
You may consider the comment pointless, but you did make it and it was replied to. The bit about not deleting my comments was referring to my user talk page, and I generally suggest leaving commentary on article talk pages alone because it's part of an ongoing discussion about articles. Kerochan no Miko 17:48, 18 September 2009 (MST)

Names, Terms and Translations[edit]

I have come to believe that Maboroshi no Ginzuishou (幻の銀水晶) can be called "Phantom Silver Crystal". 幻 apparently is a term used when referring to the crystal changing colour to be "phantoms". I am just writing what I remember, but the full article can be found on Ian Miller's site. I also noticed in later seasons, they tend to leave out the "Moboroshi" part. ~ Fighter4luv 01:41, 9 March 2007 (MST)

Thx for the info, but pls take a look here. --210 02:15, 9 March 2007 (MST)
Actually the info is relevant to this article, and I've started a section discussing it, but it shouldn't extend beyond this article if you ask me. --GracieLizzie 06:30, 10 March 2007 (MST)
Read it, & it's good. As I've said, I personally prefer "phantom". Wonder if there're other similar cases in English Sailor Moon terminology. And thx Fighter4luv for bringing up this. --210 00:03, 11 March 2007 (MST)

^ What do you mean by cases in English Sailor Moon? ~ Fighter4luv 03:48, 11 March 2007 (MST)

I meant any cases of not-so-accurate (but not outrightly incorrect) translation similar to this Silver Crystal one. --210 06:00, 11 March 2007 (MST)
Well, from what I THINK you're talking about... whenever the dub decided to keep things the same as the original, they would usually get the translation right such as "Moonlight Knight" which is a more popular translation of "Tsukikage no Naito". ~ Fighter4luv 07:18, 11 March 2007 (MST)
"Moon Shadow Knight"? ^^ --210 18:44, 11 March 2007 (MST)
Yes, if it was "Tsuki Kage no Naito" it would translated as "Moon Shadow Knight" but in this case, I'm guessing they were meant for the two words to be together since the characters usually say it as "Tsukikage" which means either "Moonlight", "Moon", or "Moonbeams". ^_^ ~ Fighter4luv 21:56, 11 March 2007 (MST)
I remember an 80s song Moonlight Shadow. As a born English speaker (I presume you are, but I could be wrong :P ), what do you think about that in this context? --210 23:03, 11 March 2007 (MST)

^ Yes, I am from a long line of English speakers :P. I also got the remix of Moonlight Shadow by the band E-Rotic. Not sure if that has anything to do with it though, especially since the song mentions getting shot with a gun.... hrmmm... I wonder if there are any references in any of those Lawrence of Arabia films =P ~ Fighter4luv 23:14, 11 March 2007 (MST)

Well, Moonlight Knight did look a bit like Mr Lawrence (played by Peter O'Tool (sp?)) in the film, especially the white costume. Wonder if Takeuchi modelled the former on the latter. lol Back to topic, the Chinese translation just adopted the same Japanese kanji (月影騎士; which happens to be identical in both languages). Hence, we don't have the word "light" per se, but the feeling tone of "影" (shadow) does indirectly incorporate the "light" factor (no light, no shadow). --210 23:45, 11 March 2007 (MST)
I've made a mistake in my last comment: Takeuchi didn't create Moonlight Knight - it's the anime staff who did. Sorry for that! --210 18:59, 12 March 2007 (MST)
Yeah, I was going to say... although, I heard that she did have input with the Alien Arc, I'm not sure which characters were derived from her own ideas. ~ Fighter4luv 01:27, 13 March 2007 (MST)
Oh really? Haven't heard that. Maybe she was consulted as a respect for her being the creator? --210 05:55, 13 March 2007 (MST)
That was probably it. Maybe it will say something about that in my BSSMR Memorial Anime Album (when I get around to translating it all). ~ Fighter4luv 07:29, 13 March 2007 (MST)

^ I've read that book (now inaccessible to me) many yrs back, but don't remember that, but I could've forgotten or just skipped that part. Gimme a note if you ever come across it in the book? ^^ --210 17:54, 13 March 2007 (MST)

I've seen various names for this crystal: Phantom Silver Crystal, Illusion Silver Crystal (as opposed to Illusionary), Mystical Silver Crystal, and even Silver Imperium Crystal in the English dub. Are we adopting "Illusionary" as the official wikimoon translation for the name? There's a song titled Maboroshi no Ginzuishou and I'm not sure which English word to use for the translation. --Secretss 18:15, 6 May 2007 (MST)

Not sure if it helps, but have you read this? --210 18:25, 6 May 2007 (MST)
Yeah on most pages we're ignoring the translation of "maboroshi" as it may lead to edit debates, the above section was written to acknowledge the many different translations of maboroshi. --GracieLizzie 08:09, 9 May 2007 (MST)
Yeah, I've read and reread that section in the article before I commented, but I didn't find concrete confirmation that wikimoon is taking "illusionary" as the official wikimoon site translation for the Japanese word (yes, there's a hint in the introductory paragraph, but that's not confirmatory enough for me). I've read that wikimoon editors have decided not to include "maboroshi" in any mentions of the crystal but as I'm translating a song title, I have to include the word and thus I need an official translation for it. I used "Illusionary" as the translation. --Secretss 15:18, 11 May 2007 (MST)
There isn't any concrete information because we don't have an "official translation" of the word. Kerochan no Miko 15:46, 11 May 2007 (MST)
I think your using of the commonly seen "Illusionary" in that article is ok, even tho I also don't think it's the best translation. --210 17:31, 11 May 2007 (MST)
Just recently going through some Japanese dictionary sites, and apparently "Illusionary" isn't even a proper translation of Maboroshi (幻)... Its main translations are "Phantom", "Phantasma", "Vision", "Illusion", and "Dream". I believe that "Phantom" or "Illusion" would be the best way to describe it before it reformed, and since "phantom" is always the top translation of the term "maboroshi" you'd think that it would probably be that. I know there is no official proof of this being the case, but "phantom" more or less describes the state of the Silver Crystal at that time ("Phantom: something apparently sensed but having no physical reality"). Just thought I'd that :P ~ Fighter4luv 06:25, 14 September 2007 (MST)
Yeah, "phantom" is a more accurate translation. --210 00:31, 15 September 2007 (MST)
It might just be more convienient to simply say "Silver Crystal" like they do in the anime. :D TV Nihon's fansub of PGSM uses "Mystical Silver Crystal" and I stick by it, but Maboroshi translates to several things in English. In the English dub, there are so many different names for the crystal, but I believe they just opt for saying "Silver Crystal" most of the time, but in the Dark Kingdom arc, they kept switching around, saying things like Imperium Silver Crystal, Silver Empyrean Crystal, Silver Crystal, the Silver Moon Crystal (a similar, but different crystal lol). But, then again, the English dub isn't known for its consistency. WaterKnight 23:31, 18 November 2007 (MST)
"Silver Crystal" is what we're using here. --210 23:39, 18 November 2007 (MST)


Should Silver Crystal and Pink Moon Crystal both be categorized under "Magic"? None of the other senshi's crystals have this clasification at the moment. While the Silver Crystal has magical properties, I don't believe there's any evidence the Pink Moon Crystal was used for anything but transformation. Thoughts? (This unsigned comment was left by anonymous user

I think that this discussion really belongs on the Pink Moon Crystal article, because I don't think that anyone is debating that the Silver Crystal belongs in the "Magic" category (it does). But, even though the Pink Moon Crystal was only shown being used to transform in the manga, considering that it's a future evolution of the Silver Crystal, it should have all the same powers &c and therefore fits in the same category. Kerochan no Miko 10:43, 3 May 2007 (MST)


So uhm. Is it possible to get a less fanservicey pic? I wanted to show the link to this article to a friend, but she's senstive about these kinds of things, and yeah :x I'm sure we can get a better picture of the Ginzuishou that doesn't also involve Usagi's breasts.--Sailor Biccy 16:36, 8 August 2007 (MST) has some excellent pictures here: . I'm sure Hoshi-chan would grant permission to use them if one of the sysops wants to ask :) BettyAnn 18:02, 8 August 2007 (MST)
Maybe we block her breasts w/ a "CENSORED" bar like those in the film Starship Troopers? j/k OK, do you have any suggestions? Or any preferred pic(s) from the above link? --210 18:10, 8 August 2007 (MST)
We could also just crop the lower, more sensitive part of the current pic. --210 18:16, 8 August 2007 (MST)
lol @ the censor sign :) Cropping would be really good! But we'd need the original pic to crop so it wouldn't so tiny. The only anime picture I have screencapped of it is here: of course, feel free to use it (although it's probably not the best picture). I don't have one of it in flower form on my page yet. Which reminds me, is there a reason why this page only has the Ginzuishou in its "lotus" form, and not in both of its forms? I understand not wanting to be overloaded with pics, but I think adding a pic of its other form would be nice, too :) BettyAnn 18:19, 8 August 2007 (MST)
I think it's OK to have 2 images for the manga & anime versions respectively. This way, we could also have the 2 forms you mentioned. --210 18:29, 8 August 2007 (MST)
Oops, the manga image is already there. So we could just change one of the current images to the non-"lotus" version. --210 18:34, 8 August 2007 (MST)
Changed to a screencap from the R movie. Kerochan no Miko 18:42, 8 August 2007 (MST)
Oooh, good screencap. Do you think it would be possible to put a picture of it in the non-"lotus" form, as well? BettyAnn 18:47, 8 August 2007 (MST)
Ummm... Dunno really how to do this but... I think we should include a picture of the Silver Crystal in it's round form (attached to the Moon Stick) and the closed form from the manga. User:Sailor-Star-Lover 18:11 7 of June (MST?)

Transformation Brooches[edit]

Yes, there was definitely some kind of crystal inside the transformation brooches in S and Stars and whatnot. But given that the Silver Crystal appeared in its normal lotus shape when by itself, I don't buy the idea that it somehow turned into a heart or star shape part of the time. Given that it was Usagi's Star Seed and thus should really have been inside of her (hello plot holes) and there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that I've seen to indicate that the heart- or star-shaped crystals are the Silver Crystal, I removed it. And will keep removing it, unless someone can give me actual proof and not personal opinion. Kerochan no Miko 21:22, 6 July 2009 (MST)

Addendum: no, Wikipedia is not proof. It's just someone else's opinion (most especially so since there's no footnote to that statement in the Wikipedia article). There needs to be some actual canonical proof that the Silver Crystal was randomly changing into a heart-shaped pink crystal and sitting inside the Eternal Moon Article, otherwise that statement is not going in this article. Kerochan no Miko 17:02, 8 July 2009 (MST)

Was it about the classic old discussion about if the heart-shaped/star-shaped/whatever-shaped crystal within Sailor Moon's brooch is whether or not the Silver Crystal? I know there's no canonical proof about this discussion but I can understand that (at least in the case of the Cosmic Heart Compact) pleople could affirm that it was actually the Silver Crystal. I mean, yes, we can see the Silver Crystal regain its shine within the broken Crystal Star and take the form of a pink, heart-shaped crystal but nobody said "Sugoi! It's the Silver Crystal". Let's not even mention the star-shaped crystal in the Eternal Moon Article... Moreover, the Silver Crystal only took two forms in the manga: the pyramidal one and the lotus-shaped one (presumably the more powerful, evolved form). The pyramidal one was seen in the S movie and Sailor Moon removed it from the Cosmic Heart Compact, as it became silvery. Sailor Moon and Venus both referred to it as the "Silver Crystal" and... oh, come on, "Silver Crystal Power". The lotus-shaped form was seen in the R movie and finally in Sailor Stars, when Sailor Moon removed/was forced to remove it from the brooch. All that info is already included in the article, so it's all right. I have my own personal opinion about all this, but it's not "official" and therefore I'm not even going to consider posting it in here. That's what forums are for. Anyway, I hope this can be useful for future users since that kind of discussion happens very often and very randomly throughout WikiMoon, but I wrote this in the Silver Crystal talk page since it seems to be the common point of reference (as it concerns to the Silver Crystal, of course). Oh and I know this was originally your post, Kerochan, but I also changed the title a bit. --Silver 07:32, 17 September 2009 (MST)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, or if this has a point, but the discussion about the Silver Crystal being inside the brooch or not is under the heading "Transformation Brooches" several sections below this one. Kerochan no Miko 11:50, 17 September 2009 (MST)
It's nothing. I've read several times things like that "the Silver Crystal is metamorphic" and discussions about whether or nor the Silver Crystal was the object contained within Usagi's brooch in differents talk pages of WikiMoon, but I never participated in the discussions and I can't find all the talk pages now, so I just expressed what I think about the changes in the crystals and the broochs above. --Silver 12:22, 17 September 2009 (MST)
Then I'm moving the discussion to where it should be, then, since it's about Usagi's brooches. Kerochan no Miko 12:46, 17 September 2009 (MST)

Silver Moon Crystal[edit]

I think Silver Moon Crystal should redirect here, at least until a separate article is created (Pink Moon Crystal has its own article after all). Also I think some of the Silver Crystal links should be fixed and changed to Silver Moon Crystal, since it was the form that the articles refer to. Tell me any opinions before I start to mess things up ^^; Silver 10:03, 11 October 2009 (MST)

I don't know that "Silver Moon Crystal" really deserves a separate article - the Pink Moon Crystal has its own because it was the crystal that belonged to Chibiusa, but the Silver Crystal and the Silver Moon Crystal were both the crystal that belonged to Usagi, just in different evolutions. Kerochan no Miko 12:57, 11 October 2009 (MST)

Episode cite[edit]

several episodes earlier, Sailor Aluminum Seiren had felt its power apparently coming from the Eternal Moon Article.
Need to have the exact episode link, not just a vague "several episodes." Kerochan no Miko 17:09, 16 December 2010 (MST)


The Silver Crystal is DEFINITELY INSIDE the Cosmic Heart Compact, which means it is also inside the Crisis and Eternal Compacts:

REFERENCE: Sailor Moon S Movie, After Sailor Moon fails to perform Rainbow Moon Heartache successfully, she opens up the her compact and the red jewel comes out and turns silver. To which Sailor Venus cries that she "can't use the ginzuishou" . A few frames later, the Cosmic Heart is shown to be empty. This is DEFINITELY conclusive evidence. YayMinakoaino 02:58, 13 January 2011 (MST)

1) The red jewel didn't "come out" of the brooch, it appeared in front of it. We've already been over this.
2) What you give as proof that it was inside the Cosmic Heart Compact doesn't prove that it was in the Crisis and Eternal Compacts, just that you believe it was in the Cosmic Heart Compact.
3) I don't see any frame where the Compact is "shown to be empty" since it's kind of blocked by the Crystal.
4) The Crystal in the S movie looks different from any other canon point, so it's still iffy proof even if it was proof. Kerochan no Miko 13:16, 13 January 2011 (MST)
1) The Compact opens. The red jewels moves out. The Compact is now empty. The crystal never flies out of her compact. With the Crystal Star in episode 88, the Star opens and the jewel appears in her hands. Its safe to assume it can teleport.
2) Seiren felt her star seed's power from the Article in episode 188. She touched it, it shockes her and she says "it's a real star seed." It appears to Lead Crow in 193, because it seems to be able to move around.
3) the Crystal looks different in the first season. in the R Movie. In the S Movie and In Sailor Stars. Just because it looks different in S, doesn't mean its not the same thing. The crystal also can change colour as you can see.

Besides you have no reason to assume it is NOT in Cosmic Compact.

In fact when the Crystal Star turns into the Cosmic Compact, the crystal flashes from silver to pink. The next frame of the Compact shows the crystal flashing pink to red. It seems to be silly that a random crystal just replaced the Silver Crystal.


This is not the only frame where it is shown that colour. Meaning it is not a colouring error. Minakoaino 15:33, 13 January 2011 (MST)

Unless you have actual proof and not just your opinion I'm not discussing this anymore because it's been done to death and back. The article says it's not certain where the Crystal is, because it isn't certain. There is evidence that it's in the compacts and evidence that it isn't and without anything definitive we can't say anything else. Kerochan no Miko 15:41, 13 January 2011 (MST)

Here is Seiren grabbing the Article...

annndd here is the best proof of all! Usagi's star seed coming out the Eternal Article! It is indeniable. In the following scenes, all they talk is about her star seed...
With the star seed taken away. Her transformation reverses. It appears she can't transform without the Silver Crystal. Which happened twice in Sailor Moon S.
I Have clearly backed up my argument. While you have not. Instead you keep dismissing it. I showed you a screenshot where the Compact is empty. Minakoaino 16:00, 13 January 2011 (MST)
You haven't come anywhere near to backing up your argument - you've shown a handful of blurry screencaps that you think proves something. They don't. I'm not discussing this further. Kerochan no Miko 16:09, 13 January 2011 (MST)
They are clear enough to show what I am trying to prove...

1) The empty compact 2) Seiren feels power coming from the article 3) Sailor Moon releases power from the article.

I have at least TRIED to be reasonable and provide and argument but you have not provided ANY rebuttal or evidence against. Go watch the clips of those screencaps if you want to disprove me. Rather than just saying "your quality isn't good enough. NO." Its just rude. I'm very sick of your attitude. So for goodness sake just delete me from this wikia. I do not care anymore. You're just a very stubborn woman. Minakoaino 16:16, 13 January 2011 (MST)

I've tried to explain, but I don't think you're even listening to what I'm saying. The point isn't that you have pictures, the point is that you have no conclusive proof - just personal interpretation of a handful of screencaps. And without conclusive proof all we can say is, "well, it looks like this and it looks like this but we don't have anything that outright says one way or the other" which is what the article already says. So unless you can find something where an animator or Naoko said "that star-shaped crystal in the Eternal Moon Article is the Silver Crystal in disguise" then the article can not be changed because there isn't proof. That's how it is. Kerochan no Miko 18:14, 13 January 2011 (MST)
I swear I had no intention of reviving this discussion, but the entry on Cosmic Heart Compact in the second S Nakayoshi album glossary contains this line: 中には銀水晶が入っている. Just saying. Don't know about other brooches. --YnK 04:41, 24 August 2011 (MST)
Excellent. Then we have proof that the Silver Crystal is in the Cosmic Heart Compact, but not the others. Kerochan no Miko 05:40, 24 August 2011 (MST)
Well, the Nakayoshi guides ended at the S season... But I wasn't trying to prove that all brooches have the Crystal, I only pointed out the one mentioned in an official source. (Incidentally, it also confirms that the crystal inside Chibimoon's Prism Heart Compact is the future Silver Crystal.)
Although, if you're willing to take the TV Magazine Deluxe artbook series into account, then the Stars one also says that the Silver Crystal is inside the Eternal Moon Article. Considering that's the only known book related to the fifth season, I seriously doubt one can find any other source for this one. --YnK 05:48, 24 August 2011 (MST)
Kodansha's & Shogakukan's picture books (ehon) have covered all five seasons, tho, & they're definitely official sources. TV Magazine & its publications are somewhat in the grey area - personally I think we could quote them if the info in question can't be found in any official sources. --210 09:13, 24 August 2011 (MST)
I don't think so. Official sources are official sources and anything else isn't official. Kerochan no Miko 18:37, 24 August 2011 (MST)
The closest thing I managed to find in relation to the Crisis Moon Compact (out of curiosity, mind you, not specifically to prove the point) is a particular line from the SuperS movie album:
That line is the caption for a movie screenshot from the final battle that shows a closeup of the brooch and the crystal in it shining brightly, so the implication seems to be that this crystal is supposed to be the Silver Crystal referenced in the caption. Nothing specific is said, sadly.
So, this entire thing is kinda stuck: we're trying to find a source that directly states the Silver Crystal is inside the brooch, but the truly "official" guide book series that has similar kinds of information only covers the first three seasons; and although it is hinted here and there that the Crisis Moon Compact and the Eternal Moon Article do contain the Silver Crystal in the anime, we can't prove it. :-/
But, since the Cosmic Heart Compact does contain the Crystal per an official source, the article can be modified to reflect it, right? (It currently has this item on the "uncertain" list.) --YnK 22:50, 24 August 2011 (MST)
It clearly states that the Crystal is inside the Cosmic Heart Compact, so yes, we can say that in the article. However, the heart-shaped crystal inside is still open to interpretation - is that the Crystal shapechanged? Is it just a cover hiding the Crystal inside the brooch? We don't know, so we can't say. Kerochan no Miko 23:04, 24 August 2011 (MST)
Then it's also the same situation with the Prism Heart Compact: that crystal is also heart-shaped, but it is known that this brooch contains the future Silver Crystal in some form - again, it is not known if Chibimoon's next brooch also contains it, because there is little official info related to the fourth season, but the Prism Heart Compact is confirmed. I mentioned it in my second post; the glossary says "中には未来の『幻の銀水晶』が入っているんだよ". --YnK 23:17, 24 August 2011 (MST)
That's why I suggested to "quote them" instead of using their info directly, but only on condition that the info in question can't by found in the official sources, e.g. the Roman Albums, picture books, etc. The reason is that TV Magazine has been provided materials directly by animation studios over the decades, hence their info is much more credible than fan info. --210 01:29, 25 August 2011 (MST)
They may be more credible than fan info, but they still aren't official material (unless they specifically note they're quoting someone involved with the series or something). Kerochan no Miko 01:47, 25 August 2011 (MST)
No, I'm not saying they're official per se - I've said above they fall in a "grey area," but think they could be quoted (maybe in a trivia section) if the info concerned can't be found in all official sources. --210 07:18, 25 August 2011 (MST)
Yes, but I'm extremely hesitant to start drawing on any "grey" sources of information at all. It would have to depend on what the quote is. Kerochan no Miko 13:16, 25 August 2011 (MST)
I was referring to what YnK said above about the "TV Magazine Deluxe artbook series," but since s/he also said "that's the only known book related to the fifth season," which isn't the case, as I've pointed out in the following comment (& the books I mentioned in that comment are official ones, too), so I suggested to quote that (only) if nothing about it can be found in any official sources. --210 01:19, 26 August 2011 (MST)
I probably meant specifically a guide-type book. Although, after rewatching a good portion of Sailor Stars, I think the animators themselves weren't sure where the Silver Crystal was supposed to be in relation to Usagi's body, so it's unlikely an official clarification exists at all. --YnK 01:28, 26 August 2011 (MST)