Talk:Holy Grail

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Revision as of 04:45, 5 September 2007 by Maboroshi (talk | contribs) (The Item's Name)
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The Item's Name

The person who wrote this page and the related pages was misinformed. First of all, this particular item was never referred to as "the Holy Grail". The word "聖杯" CAN be used to refer to the Holy Grail of Christian mythology but the word itself just means "chalice". There is no indication anywhere that this item was specifically intended to be the Holy Grail of Christian mythology (although the name was obviously supposed to imply some similarity). Furthermore, the "Rainbow Moon Chalice" was not an upgrade to this item; "Rainbow Moon Cálice" was the name Bandai gave the 聖杯 itself when it was released as a toy. (Note the spelling "Cálice" rather than "Chalice"; it was written this way on the box in Roman letters, and was written in Japanese as "カリス" ["karisu"], which does not equate to the English word "Chalice" [which would be written "チャリス", "charisu"). The name "Rainbow Moon Cálice" was never used in the manga; it was invented for the toy (like several other item names, including the Sailor Moon R items "Cutie Moon Rod" and "Crystal Star"). "Holy Moon Cálice" was the name used for the toy of the upgraded version of the 聖杯, which I believe was not named at all in the manga. Again, note the spelling "Cálice"; although the word was not written in Roman letters on the box, it was written in Japanese as "カリス" just like the "Rainbow Moon Cálice". So the "Rainbow Moon Cálice" was upgraded into the "Holy Moon Cálice", the names were only used for the toys, and neither of those names was ever used in the manga (unless I missed a reference or the names were changed in the reprint versions - I've only read the originals). So, several of these pages need to be re-written and re-named. I think think the name of page should be changed simply to "Chalice" if an English word has to be used, with redirects from the more common fan names (such as "Holy Grail"). Maboroshi 02:05, 5 September 2007 (MST)

1) We are using toy names as names for items if no other "official" name has been given (such as in the aforementioned Cutie Moon Rod example), so I have no problem with the Rainbow Moon Calice name; however, changing the name of that article needs to be taken up on that article's talk page.
2) If there was never an official translation given for this article's name (and AFAIK there hasn't been; feel free to provide real source material) I don't see why we shouldn't use the overwhelmingly common "Holy Grail" translation. It's what everyone knows it as. Kerochan no Miko 02:08, 5 September 2007 (MST)
Agreed with keeping it as it currently stands. And using the á character is a pain in the ass. Kyaa the Catlord 02:14, 5 September 2007 (MST)
I must not have been clear enough - "Rainbow Moon Cálice" is the name this specific item was given by Bandai. Meaning, the toy Bandai released of the item that most people call "the Holy Grail" was "officially" called "Rainbow Moon Cálice" in Roman letters on the box. If you go to Google Images and type "rainbow moon calice", a picture of it is at the top with the name clearly written on the box. (This unsigned comment was left by Maboroshi)
Ah. Well, that being the case, I'm confused why you suggested renaming it to just "Chalice," but...
First of all, please sign your comments (either by typing ~~~~ or hitting the second button from the right above the edit box). Second of all, I can see where you're getting the "Rainbow Moon Cálice" name from, but what's the source on the "Holy Moon Cálice"?Kerochan no Miko 02:27, 5 September 2007 (MST)
Sorry, I'm still getting used to using this website and keep forgetting you have to sign your comments manually. I suggested renaming it "Chalice" because that is the closest one can get in English to what the name of it was in the manga, since I didn't know WikiMoon considered the names of the toys to be "official". (They're probably just names the marketing department thought of to make the items more attractive to consumers; it seems like it would be better to defer to Takeuchi Naoko since she created them [and named them] originally.) I explained the name "Holy Moon Cálice" on the page for that item. Maboroshi 02:45, 5 September 2007 (MST)

First Appearance in Manga

I am actually unsure where in the manga to say the grail appeared, it sort of starts appearing at the end of Mugen 6, but it's fading in and doesn't "solidify" till Mugen 7. Oh and the talismans appear long before they do in the anime and they don't resonate till after the grail appears, do so but before/as Super Sailor Moon appears. GracieLizzie 09:50, 7 June 2006 (MST)

Put down Mugen 6/Mugen 7 if it's arguably both. Dooky 10:00, 7 June 2006 (MST)


Dream

In the Dream arc, a similiar chalice appears when Usagi becomes Eternal Sailor Moon. Was that ever given an actual name (a similiar object appeared in the anime in Sailor Stars, when the Eternal Tiare was powered up)- Sailor Biccy 22:51, 7 December 2006 (MST)

Are you referring to the Holy Moon Calice? If so, check out the talk page for the Eternal Tiare. Kerochan no Miko 23:20, 7 December 2006 (MST)

Moving Page

I'm moving this page because the official name from the Manga is Holy Chalice, not Holy Grail, as cited in Artbook 3, and manga volume 15, before the Holy Chalice upgrade appears (unnamed in the manga). The Bandai boxes call it the Rainbow Moon Cálice, making this page more a reflection of fandom's name of it, rather than *official* naming of it. --Hitsuji Kinno 11:31, 12 July 2007 (MST)

Whether or not this is the wrong title, arbitrarily moving pages like this is completely against the rules. Please familiarize yourself with them. Kerochan no Miko 13:03, 12 July 2007 (MST)