Talk:Homosexuality in Sailor Moon

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Revision as of 16:38, 21 March 2007 by GracieLizzie (talk | contribs) (PGSM)
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We really have to distinguished between real and imagined in this case. Sometimes fans speculate but there's no real proof apart from innocent innuendo for Mercury and Jupiter, I wouldn't list them under a category of 'lesbian' at all, it can just serve to confuse people. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to note such sexual anecdotes under a different category.--WikiSysop 09:55, 15 May 2006 (MST)

I think I was fairly clear on which ones are fannon and which are cannon. If you like there can be two larger sections of "Cannon" and "Fannon" to seperate them, though I'm not sure about how to format it that way.

How's the change I made? We need to be a bit careful with fan canon, always making sure to label it clearly as such. Once this is up and running, the majority of users I suspect will be people who aren't as new to the series as some of us are, and we don't want to be accused of creating false images by letting them get easily confused between the two. Certainly, we want to make this a very fan oriented project and helpful to people who want to understand fan canon, but I also think we need to clearly separate between the two.--WikiSysop 10:11, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Yeah, this needs better separation... (or possibly needed, Jay changed the article while I was writing this :P) first a section on actual canon lesbians in the series (there are only really two), then the rest of the speculation could follow. I've always thought of Crow and Seiren as the next-most implied couple after Haruka and Michiru (in the anime, anyway) but that's probably just me. This could be an interesting article on lesbianism within the series in general, but for that to be the case, we can't have it 90% imagined couples (and believe me, I say this as the biggest fan of yuri I know). Dooky 10:13, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Dammit now I have to do all that again.--WikiSysop 10:15, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Isn't Seiya being a lesbian pretty canon? Especially considering she still falls for Usagi in the manga where she is a girl 100% of the time. It's just unlike Neptune and Uranus her love (or loves if you count her apparent love for Kakyuu) is unrequited. GracieLizzie 10:20, 15 May 2006 (MST)
I guess so. It makes sense in the canon section for now, people can dispute it. FYI I changed the part about Makoto having dated "many many guys." As far as we know, she's only dated one, her "departed boyfriend" that she constantly refers to, and merely pines after the others. Something many people don't note is that the term she uses in Japanese, shitsuren shita sempai, doesn't completely imply "ex boyfriend." It's actually "unrequited love" and she may not have even dated him, he could have been merely a major, obsessive crush. In the anime, at least. I think he makes an appearance in the manga.--WikiSysop 10:23, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Heh, I forgot about Seiya. Incidentally, Mako's sempai does sort of appear in the anime in a flashback, and Makoto seems to imply that she's dated a few guys before him (this is all in episode 49, I think). Dooky 10:28, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Hmm, the "rainy day man" episode huh? I don't remember specifics, perhaps she did date instead of being outright rejected each time. I can't prove it either way so I left it vague on the page for now.--WikiSysop 10:33, 15 May 2006 (MST)
I could have sworn that Mako's sempai was the girl who wrote the Pegasus books in SuperS. :P Kyaa the Catlord 21:36, 15 May 2006 (MST)
Then Mako has bad eyesight, she looks nothing like all those guys she kept compairing to her ;) GracieLizzie 09:34, 16 May 2006 (MST)
Mako certainly does have bad eyesight. We are still trying to get her to wear some glasses for our latest, um, project. Kyaa the Catlord 19:54, 16 May 2006 (MST)

Suggestion

How about renaming this to something like "Lesbianism in Sailor Moon"? As it stands the title is a bit misleading (unless we want to stick a definition of 'lesbian' in there).

I agree and I've moved it :) GracieLizzie 10:20, 25 May 2006 (MST)

http://www.tam.ne.jp/~heyan/wma/wma_e.htm - may be this site can be added in external links? This is probably the best resource concerning Mako-Ami affair. Anton-P 00:05, 15 July 2006 (MST)

I don't think that's really necessary. Besides, the site only has information for the original series and about half of R, and it was last updated in 2005 (not to mention that the grammar is absolutely horrible).

They're my favourite couple, so sue me :P

Where would Crow and Seiren go in this article? There's nothing explicit but Crow's obsession with Seiren seems to go way beyond friendship. I realise I'm biased so I'm just putting this out there for debate. Also, Lethe ans Mnemosyne in the manga seemed extraordinarily close, but again that might just be my yuri goggles. Dooky 21:51, 29 June 2006 (MST)

I always thought Lethe and Mnemosyne were more like Cyprine and Ptilol, actually...but agreed with Crow/Seiren. Kerochan no Miko 22:57, 29 June 2006 (MST)
Hmmm, I once read that Lethe Mnemosyne were called sisters at one point, or something similar, but this was in the Materials Collection or something and not in the manga proper. Plus I may be misremembering. GracieLizzie 05:06, 30 June 2006 (MST)
You could be right, and like most characters in the Stars manga they're only around for about two pages anyway. I suppose we really don't know much about them at all, so in their case I'll defer to someone who has actually read the manga recently.
For Lead Crow, I was thinking about the possibility of a third section here for 'characters where there's some genuine evidence but nothing conclusive'. I guess the equivalent for gay male characters would include the likes of Fiore and maybe Usui, the fashion designer in SuperS. The main drawback for this section would be that it could potentially encourage people to move characters out of the 'fanon' section and into the 'maybe' section, and I don't want this article to turn into an edit war. But on the other hand, I have my loyalty to the Crow/Seiren cause... :P Dooky 05:19, 30 June 2006 (MST)
Personally I took Usui as fairly blatently gay not to say it's canon as in not one says he is but that in my mind I am almost certain he is. I mean why else would Fish Eye not pretend to be a girl around him? Anyway we might want to renamed this section to homosexuality in Sailor Moon so we can discuss Kunzite, Zoisite, and Fish Eye too. GracieLizzie 11:14, 30 June 2006 (MST)
^I agree! It should be all of the same-sex couples.  :D--Sakky 21:24, 12 November 2006 (MST)

^ Ditto. --210 21:27, 12 November 2006 (MST)

Would Crow/Seiren be canon or fancanon? Oh I see Dooky mentioned something that like... Implied Relationships maybe we could call it? Lethe & Mnemosyne are twins (materials collection) so big NO on them. XD --Sakky 16:40, 13 November 2006 (MST)

Crow/Seiren is decidedly fanon, but it is implied. And there's nothing that says there can't be twincest. :P Kerochan no Miko 17:07, 13 November 2006 (MST)
[Re: Twincest] "Big NO" morally & genetically (for twins of diff. genders), but it could still happen in reality, just as any kind of sexual deviant behaviors. --210 19:34, 13 November 2006 (MST)
Yes. It could happen in reality. This is why I pointed that out, when Sakura said Lethe/Mnemosyne was ruled out because they were twins. Kerochan no Miko 20:44, 13 November 2006 (MST)
You're right, it is anime. @____@--Sakky 07:24, 14 November 2006 (MST)
Oh, and isn't Yoshiki Usui's assistant his brother? More incest? T_T--Sakky 07:27, 14 November 2006 (MST)
They're only brothers in the NA dub.[1] This was obviously done to hide any homosexuality hints. --GracieLizzie 07:57, 14 November 2006 (MST)

^ ... but turned out to become (the even worse) incest homosexuality, as Sakky said? (Well, I haven't watched the dub. Just wild guess. lol) --210 21:10, 14 November 2006 (MST)

Dark Mercury

Certainly Dark Mercury of Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon could be seen as a jilted lover to Usagi.

Uh. According to who? Kerochan no Miko 10:50, 13 November 2006 (MST)

I'm going to remove that certainly. It is a moderately popular fanon pairing but that certainly makes it look canon... which it isn't. --GracieLizzie 11:29, 13 November 2006 (MST)

Juicy New Pics

May I suggest adding the words "Parental Guidance" at the top right-hand corner? lol --210 21:15, 14 November 2006 (MST)

Two people embracing is hardly "juicy". Kerochan no Miko 22:20, 14 November 2006 (MST)
Here's a suggestion. Find something better to do than make worthless discussion sections on LD cover art.--WikiSysop 00:28, 15 November 2006 (MST)
I was just making an obvious joke in my original comment & didn't expect to be responded (not that I mind being responded tho lol) --210 01:14, 15 November 2006 (MST)
Well, my standard for such matter is low. Call me a con. :P --210 23:18, 14 November 2006 (MST)
...a convict...? Kerochan no Miko 23:33, 14 November 2006 (MST)
lol I meant "conservative" as in "neo-con", but actually I don't think I'm one in a strict sense. I was j/k in my last comment. --210 00:08, 15 November 2006 (MST)
FYI, I've never heard anyone use "con" to mean "conservative" (except in conjunction with "neo" in the sense you noted there). Kerochan no Miko 09:43, 15 November 2006 (MST)

^ Noted, thank you very much. m( _ _ )m --210 18:10, 15 November 2006 (MST)

Category

I really don't know what category this article belongs in - do we need a new "metaseries discussion" category or something? Kerochan no Miko 08:52, 23 February 2007 (MST)

When I categorized it as "Terms and Phrases", I actually felt it didn't fit neatly - it's more like "concepts" not mentioned outright in the series, but I couldn't find a better category. I think your suggestion could work. Any other ideas anyone? --210 18:00, 23 February 2007 (MST)

PGSM

Who thinks that Sugao Saitou and Ikuko have a relationship? That's one I certainly have never heard before... Kerochan no Miko 12:48, 21 March 2007 (MST)

That's why I commented it out. I wasn't sure whether I'd come across this, or whether I'd misinterpret someone who really liked their friendship. --GracieLizzie 13:38, 21 March 2007 (MST)